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["Toni Hawryluk" <tonihawr AT msn.com>]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Gene GeRue<mailto:genegerue AT ruralize.com> 

>> Recent work has demonstrated the strong linkages between forests, trees 
>> and food security (394-399; 408). This is increasingly being taken into 
>> account in the development of forest projects and policies. However the 
>> role of wild foods in agricultural systems under stress is less well 
>> documented and an acknowledgement of their importance for food security - 
>> - - has yet to influence mainstream thinking (703).<<

Yes, indeed, an occasional stray thought
*is* given to the difference between *Forest*
and forest ... but there is so little of *Forest*
being investigated for its future contributions
of *itself* *as is* - providing no immediate
dollars - that the rest of it may vanish the
way the "real" *Prairie* (and bison) did ...
>From tvoivozd AT infionline.net  Tue Oct  5 13:04:26 2004
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Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 13:22:00 -0700
From: Tvoivozhd <tvoivozd AT infionline.net>
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To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [Homestead] Dam design, was muscatel wine, tequila, Uuf da
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Warren F. Smith wrote:

>Good luck on getting a dam permitted. It just ain't like it used to be.
>Maybe I could UPS you a few beavers; they avoid all the red tape.
>
>

tvoivozhd---they sure as hell did here last year, didn't ask my
permission for gnawing down a lot of big willows and pines I would
rather have kept as a source of log furniture, and the pines for shade
around a very good guest cabin construction site.  Finally got rid of
them.  The willows will grow back, the pines might, but it would take
fifteen years or more.

>Some fellows were trying to get a dam permitted on their 900 acre hunt club
>tract near here and were initially turned down. They hired a "dam
>consultant" (retired US Corps of Engineers, naturally). He had a good plan-
>made application to build TWELVE dams on the same site. Only got two
>approved.
>
>Here's an interesting site:
>http://crunch.tec.army.mil/nid/webpages/nid.cfm
>
>Warren
>
>
>
tvoivozhd---permitting varies a lot by State.  In Florida, long after
digging ponds and canals was outlawed because of surface evaporation, a
friend of mine in Stuart got a maze of disconnected freshwater shrimp
and tilapia ponds permitted by describing them as a flood-control
project---and paid for it in advance by selling the underlying gravel to
the Florida State Road Department, which is always looking for cheap
gravel..

When our dam was built, any dam under fifteen or sixteen feet was exempt
from permits---anything over that was regarded as a burst-hazard to
dounstream residents.  Since my (my daughter's) needs are to empty the
grandfathered-in pond, bulldoze out the 12 feet of extremely fertile
silt, and build a small silt-catchment pond at the upstream line fence,
with a road across the top of the small dam, I'd feel safe doing as I
dam pleased.  Would look into it anyway, and figure my daughter wood
too, as would most earthmoving contractors.