Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

corpus-paul - Re: The theme of Rom 5 - 8

corpus-paul AT lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Corpus-Paul

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: Matt Eby <ebymatt AT yahoo.com>
  • To: Corpus-paul <corpus-paul AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
  • Subject: Re: The theme of Rom 5 - 8
  • Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 19:57:11 -0700 (PDT)


Moon,

I read the article by Mark Rapinchuk two years ago ("Universal Sin and
Salvation in Romans 5:12-21" _JETS_ 42/3 [Sept. 1999] 427-441) and
found it highly persuasive. For introduction, I've spent much of the
last three years studying Romans and am currently considering writing a
Master's thesis on the alleged Pauline doctrine of 'original sin' in
5:12-21.

Moon:
> My point was that in chapter 5, Paul did not talk about
> individual believers, but about "we", the Gentile, the UNGODLY.
> That is, he is still struggling with the issue of inclusion
> of the Gentiles, the UNGODLY, the SINNERS, the ENEMIES,
> into the grace of God. Note 5:2 "Through him
> we [the Gentiles] have OBTAINED ACCESS to THIS GRACE".
> I suspect that all the issues of Rom 5 are related to this
> inclusion of the UNGODLY into the grace of God one way or
> another. It is because Paul does not address the issue of how
> an individual adam can get access to the grace of God, but
> the issue of how the UNGODLY Gentiles can obtain access to the
> grace of God.

Although I agree that the motif of no Jew/Gentile distinction forms an
unbroken theme throughout the letter, I feel you may be pressing it as
a 'hot issue' in 5-8 when Paul has already resolved it for the time
being in 1-4. Thus you are still drawing a distinction between Jews
and Gentiles in chaps 5-6 when Paul has already dissolved it:

> For example, 5:1 "we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus
> Christ". This statement seems reasonable to utter from the
> viewpoint
> of "we" Gentile believers.
> 5:6 "While we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for
> the
> UNGODLY" This "we" the UNGODLY are none other than the Gentiles.
> 5:8 "while we were SINNERS" and 5:10 "while we were ENEMIES" -
> they also reflect that "we" do not refer to individual universal,
> but rather collectively to Gentiles, who were sinners and enemies
> by definition.

Paul's references to the 'ungodly', 'sinners' and 'enemies' here--when
viewed in light of earlier statements like Rom 3:9-24 (not to mention
Paul's use of the first person)--seem to point not to 'Gentiles only'
but to the "all men" (both Jews and Gentiles without ethnic
distinction) which you observed in 5:18. The same thing goes for chap.
6:

> E.g. 6:17. "you who were ONCE SLAVES OF SIN have become
> OBEDIENT from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you
> were committed." This "you" reminds me of Gentiles.
> 6:19. "Just as you once yieled your members to IMPURITY
> (AKAQARSIA)
> and LAWLESSNESS (ANOMIA) unto LAWLESSNESS, so .."
> Impurity and lawlessness reminds me of typical Gentile sins.
>
> So, chapter 6 does not talk about the sin of an abstract Adam,
> but concrete Gentile experience.

I would argue that 'slaves of sin', 'impurity' and 'lawlessness' are
not simply Gentile issues. Paul spent much of chaps. 1-3 placing his
fellow Jews in the same playing field as the Gentiles ("we have already
charged both Jews and Greeks all to be under sin" [Rom. 3:9]--'hUPO' is
recognized as slavery language [cf. also 7:14; Gal. 3:22]). Thus,
while I also do not detect an 'abstract Adam' in chapter 6, I do
observe concrete Jew *and* Gentile experience.

> I once read Rom 6 like you. I am trying to read it
> "consistently" from the New Perspective.
> My point was: Once Paul insisted that the Gentiles be
> included into the grace of God without becoming Jews
> on the common basis of faith in Christ, he needed to
> solve the problems associated with this claim. Chapter 6
> talks about HOW the former UNGODLY should behave, once
> admitted in the people of God, without becoming Jews, that is
> without being under the law. In 6:15, Paul says that even though
> they are not under the law (unlike the Jews), but under grace
> (in Christ), they should not sin. They should forsake
> the former life as slaves of sin, and be obedient to the
> standard of teaching (6:17). So, in chapter 6, Paul
> deals with an issue of behavior associated with the inclusion of
> the Gentiles into the people of God. The issue is very practical
> in nature. We should be very careful not to overinterpret
> statements used to make practical points.

Again I would argue, despite many recent assertions (like those of John
Gager, Stanley Stowers and others in the camp), that Paul is speaking
not only of Gentiles here, but Jews. Elsewhere he declares that even
he himself--a Jew--is not under Torah but under Christ (1 Cor 9:20).
This is something that goes for *all men*, not just Gentiles.

My thoughts,

Matthew A. Eby
Student, Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary
ebymatt AT yahoo.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1




Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page