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  • From: "Hyam Maccoby" <h.z.maccoby AT leeds.ac.uk>
  • To: "Corpus-paul" <corpus-paul AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
  • Subject: Re: Paul a Pharisee/Rabbinic traditions
  • Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 14:17:10 +0100


Loren and Jim,

There are two separate questions here, which, it seems to me, Loren
confuses.

1. Is there continuity between the Pharisees and the rabbis?

2. Did the rabbis (in Mishnah etc.) report correctly the views of the
Pharisees such as the Hillelites and the Shammaites? (This second question
is the one put by Jim).

One could answer `no' to the first question and `yes' to the second. It
is the second question that is more relevant to our present discussion.
It seems to me that the rabbis had little motivation to produce false
reports about the controversies between the Hillelites and the Shammaites,
and that these controversies are on the whole correctly reported in Mishnah,
Tosefta, etc.
On the other hand, the rabbis did have motivation in stressing their own
continuity with the Pharisees, since this gave them authority. This is
ostensibly why this continuity was questioned so strongly by certain
scholars. But more recent scholarship (e.g. E.P. Sanders) has also
questioned the motivation of the questioners in this matter, since
acceptance of continuity between Pharisees and rabbis would throw such
strong doubt on the NT portrayal of the Pharisees. I myself, as Loren says,
am on the side of continuity between Pharisees and rabbis, on the whole,
though I have pointed out elements of discontinuity from time to time - and
also elements of discontinuity between earlier and later phases of the
rabbinic movement itself. In my view, some of the strongest evidence for
Pharisee-rabbinic continuity lies in the utterances of Jesus himself , which
often have a rabbinic flavour (I am aware that this is attributed by some to
`re-Judaization' in the Early Church, but even this assigns rabbinic
thinking to the first century). I think there is a lot more support
nowadays for my standpoint. Some Jewish scholars, on the other hand, (e.g.
Jacob Neusner) have come out in favour of discontinuity between Pharisees
and rabbis. I think that this matter is still very much open to debate, and
is no longer drawn up in terms of Jewish/Christian conflict.

Hyam Maccoby


Research Professor
Centre for Jewish Studies
University of Leeds
LS2
Direct lines: tel. +44 (0)113 268 1972
fax +44 (0)113 268 0041
e-mail: h.z.maccoby AT leeds.ac.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: "Loren Rosson" <rossoiii AT yahoo.com>
To: "Corpus-paul" <corpus-paul AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2001 11:24 AM
Subject: [corpus-paul] Re: Paul a Pharisee


> Jim Miller wrote:
>
> >Although it is fashionable in scholarship to
> >question the historical accuracy of the gospels
> >and Acts, has anyone considered the likelyhood
> >that the Rabbinic traditions may not be completely
> >accurate about the debate between bet Hillel and
> >bet Shammai?
>
> Actually, Jim, it's just as fashionable in scholarship
> to question the accuracy of the rabbinic traditions.
> Such issues are discussed and debated all the time.
> Hyam has been an aggressive exception on this point,
> which is one reason (among many) why his "Mythmaker"
> and "Paul and Hellenism" have been heavily criticized.
> For my own part, I do not uncritically accept every
> rabbinic text as reflecting pre-70 Pharisaic thought.
> But naturally -- as with the Gospels/Acts for
> understanding early Christianity -- they offer a good
> starting point.
>
> Loren Rosson III
> Nashua NH
> rossoiii AT yahoo.com
>
>
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  • Re: Paul a Pharisee/Rabbinic traditions, Hyam Maccoby, 09/25/2001

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