Corpus-Paul

["Jeffrey B. Gibson" <jgibson000 AT mailhost.chi.ameritech.net>]

Robert M Schacht wrote:

>
> Craig,
> I suppose my first question would be, is there any *other* way that Paul
> could have expressed the banal point (the  "I am who I am" conventional
> translation)?
> On the other hand, to support your point about the significance of the
> phrase, Paul does seem to talk more than other NT writers about
> Christians being "children of God"
> (Romans 8):
> 16 it is that very Spirit bearing witness
> with our spirit that we are children of God,
>  17 and if children, then heirs, heirs of
> God and joint heirs with Christ-- if, in
> fact, we suffer with him so that we may
> also be glorified with him.
>
> Let's also put this in the context of Jeffrey's query on July 27
> regarding 1 Cor 15:3.
> The chapter begins with a summary of the Gospel according to Paul, where
> we get into the business of Paul's quotation in 1 Cor 15:3 of the early
> Christian tradition that
> "Christ died for ours sins" (XRISTOS APEQANEN hUPER TWN AMARTIWN), to
> quote Jeffrey's message. Note that here "sins" appears to be either
> corporate or collective, which leads us to the ambiguity that Jeffrey
> wondered about.
>
> But the passage you cite a few verses later seems to focus on an
> individual sin-- Paul's persecution of "the church of God" (vs. 9). Is
> this merely a digression, or is it part and parcel of the message of
> Paul's Gospel? Paul elsewhere declares that Jesus' death was not only
> with corporate redemption in mind, but with individual redemption (e.g.,
> Gal. 2:20)
>

Bob,

I'm not sure exactly how to answer you other that to note that the "sin" Paul 
engaged
in was the epitome of the very sin that I see Paul proposing as "shown the 
way out of"
through the faithfulness of Jesus. After all, Paul was acting out of zeal for 
the Law
and therefore out of faithfulness to a vision of his nation that he saw to be
incumbent upon all of Israel when he engaged in his persecutions of  
followers of the
lawbreaker Jesus. So I don't see that we have here a contradiction -- 
especially if we
see (a) that individuals can engage in a national apostasy and (b) the 
example of
Jesus faithfulness is for Paul also an example of how an individual, joining 
with
others, can avoid, or be redeemed from, engaging in this particular sin.

>
> Perhaps relevant to both questions is Galatians 4:
> 4 But when the fullness of time had
> come, God sent his Son, born of a
> woman, born under the law,
>  5 in order to redeem those who were
> under the law, so that we might receive
> adoption as children.
>  6 And because you are children, God
> has sent the Spirit of his Son into our
> hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"
>  7 So you are no longer a slave but a
> child, and if a child then also an heir,
> through God.
>
> This seems somewhat far removed from Macabbees to me.
>

I'm not sure why you see this passage as a far removed from the counter 
proposal that
I suggested Paul is mooting in 1 Cor 15:3. After all it is talking about -- 
if only
implicitly -- whether those who are "sons of the covenant" should devote 
themselves to
the zeal for the law.

(Or have I misunderstood you completely?)

Yours,

Jeffrey
--
Jeffrey B. Gibson
7423 N. Sheridan Road #2A
Chicago, Illinois 60626
e-mail jgibson000 AT ameritech.net