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  • From: "Liz Fried" <lizfried AT umich.edu>
  • To: "Corpus-paul" <corpus-paul AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
  • Subject: RE: Rom 7, Pauline eschatology, and other questions
  • Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:59:02 -0500






-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffrey B. Gibson [mailto:jgibson000 AT mpdr0.chicago.il.ameritech.net]
Sent: Monday, March 29, 1999 7:48 PM
To: Corpus-paul
Subject: Rom 7, Pauline eschatology, and other questions


>>C-P Members,
I am at the preliminary stages of writing an article on the context of the
theology of Romans - more specifically on the idea that Rom. 7 and the
discussion of the "wretched I" within that chapter have to do with Paul
expounding upon how the tradition of Zeal which he was following before his
"call" warped his idea of obedience to God and led him not so much to
experience death as to deal it out to others. >>

Jeffrey,
How do you know that the pre-Christian Paul attempted to deal out death to
others.
He says in his letters only that he "persecuted" Christians. How do you
interpret this term, and what is your evidence for it? I sincerely doubt
that he did more than simply harass them. What would have been the vehicle,
official or otherwise, by which he would have been able to do anything?



>>I have a hunch that within Romans 7 (and for that matter, the rest of the
epistle) there is as much of a critique of the "politics of holiness" as
that found in the teaching of Jesus, and that Paul's critique was being
carried out for the same reasons that Jesus undertook it. >>

Could you explain what you mean by a "critique of the politics of holiness?"
and what is the "politics of holiness?" Perhaps this is a well-known term
that everyone knows, in which case you can tell me briefly off-list.

>>But to my knowledge, no one has emphasized this theme --- or at least
tried to locate Paul's sense of mission and his discussion of the Law within
the context of religious/political conflict which Jesus himself tried to
address. In other words, what I am now exploring is the idea that Romans and
indeed all of Paul's activity is carried out within the same horizon as that
which, following Tom Wright, Marcus Borg, and George Caird, informed Jesus'
mission, namely, that if Jew Gentile relations did not change, or if there
was not a new ideal taken up by the people of God regarding what being
Israel entailed, then Israel was doomed vis a vis Rome.>>

It is hard for me to put Jesus' mission in the same light as Paul's. Paul's
letters and activities were addressed to Gentiles. If Jesus was engaged in
an inner Jewish political conflict, how would Paul's message to Gentiles
extend Jesus' mission?


>>What has led me to explore this question is (a) Caird's insistence that
the arguments carried out by both Jesus and Paul were arguments from Jews
with Jews on the true meaning of Judaism, (b) Caird's and Wright's
discussion of the meaning and use of apocalyptic language, and (c) Borg's
work on the non-eschatological Jesus. It seems to me that Paul's
consciousness of what he has been "sent" to do is in all ways an extension
of Jesus' mission. But while the political context of the ground of
eschatological judgment material and sayings on "end times" (namely, a
perception of how continuing to emphasize "holiness" will lead inevitably to
a clash with Rome) is now often acknowledged and taken into account when
dealing with Jesus' teaching, it seems not to be considered as a background,
let alone a motivating element, in the teaching of Paul and his claims about
the return of Jesus or how near the end is. >>

Are you saying that the prevailing Jewish notion of holiness led to zealous
activities on the part of Jews during that period which Jesus predicted
would lead to war with Rome? How do you see Paul's mission reflecting this?



>>I guess, then, what I am asking List Members to comment upon are the
questions of (a) how much Pauline eschatology is rooted in and mirrors
Jesus', (b) how much the crisis language of Paul is a reflection of Jesus
own sense of political reality, and (c) how much of Jesus' own sense of what
might lead to Israel's doom informs Paul's missionary activity.>>

Okay. How do you answer these questions?


>> I want to make the case that Paul's eschatology is that of Jesus as
Caird, Wright, and Borg have outlined what Jesus' was. Or in other words, I
want to argue for a non-apocalyptic eschatological Paul, and to explore the
1st cent. Palestinian conflict with Rome brought on by the "politics of
Holiness" as the context of Paul's view of the Law, Sin, and his "doctrine"
of Justification. I have the feeling that such an exploration would have
ramifications, too, for the PISTIS XRISTOU debate. >>


I would like to hear more about this.



>>So I would be grateful for any comments List Members might have on these
musings. Has any work been done on this by anyone else? >>


Yours,
Jeffrey Gibson
--
Jeffrey B. Gibson
7423 N. Sheridan Road #2A
Chicago, Illinois 60626
e-mail jgibson000 AT ameritech.net

Lisbeth S. Fried
Department of Hebrew and Judaic Studies
New York University
51 Washington Sq. S.
New York, NY 10012
lqf9256 AT is3.nyu.edu
lizfried AT umich.edu





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