RTP-area local music and culture

[local506 AT gmail.com]

...you can continue posting about cookies, candles and other stuff on
the other thread.

>> thought you were still letting over-18s in, right? Might need some 
>> outreach there . . .)

Yes, we are 18+ and, for some reason (possibly because we were 21+
prior to my ownership,) some people assume they cannot get in.  For
what it's worth, this little change in ages comes with increased
scrutiny by the CHPD and NC ALE, not to mention a nice little bump in
our insurance policy.  But one of the reasons I do this is because I
remember how many great shows I saw before I turned 21.  But yes, we
could do a better job letting students know they can get in (but also
one of the reasons I like teaming up with student-oriented groups such
as the DTH.)

>>>I go to a show at Local 506. After the first band, the smoke is bad
enough that I go outside...while I'm out there, some of us nonsmokers
start talking about the other shows that night...and we all take off
to one of those shows. Or maybe we skip the part where we come to
Local 506 at all.

Firstly, my goal is to create a 'safe-haven' for non-smokers that is
inside 506.  If it turns out, sending smokers into one room doesn't
minimize or eliminate smoke in the second room, then I would consider
this a failed attempt.  Again, we tried this once and it worked better
than even I expected, so I'd like to keep trying this.  Will it work
everytime? - probably not, but still should work better than the
current set-up.

With that said, your scenario of finding another option could still
take place, whether inside 506 or on the sidewalk.  And if there is a
band you'd rather see at another venue, then by all means you should.

>>>Do you really think that having the ability to smoke *inside* Local 506
is the only factor keeping the smokers from fleeing? ...So if the
smokers leave to go see
another band, they're quite possibly going somewhere else nonsmoking.

I'm not worried about losing people to other venues, I'm worried about
losing them to other bars, in general (and from the front door of 506,
I can hit about five with a rock!)  For example, before The Cave
started serving liquor, Local 506 used to get a fair share of people
who would walk the block up the street just to get a liquor drink.  I
think the same applies to smokers.

>>>Or are you saying that your smoking patrons are so fickle and/or so
addicted that they'd rather sit at the Sports Bar and smoke & drink,
instead of seeing the band at your bar?

To a certain degree, I'm saying that all people are that fickle. I
know I've missed my share of music at the Cat's Cradle because I was
engaged in conversation on the smoking patio (and I don't smoke!)
People often talked about the time Mike Mills got up with Mayflies to
play 'Toys in the Attic' - I was there too, outside, on the patio,
clueless.  Heck, I remember missing an entire Afghan Whigs set at the
old Cradle because I was having a record-setting game of Arkanoid out
in the lobby!

So, yes, per your example, I could see two (or more smokers) standing
on the sidewalk before one of them thought 'why are we standing out
here, and not drinking. why don't we find a place to sit down and
smoke...and drink!'  And, as mentioned, there are more smoking bar
options than non-smoking venue options.

>One of the great things about Chapel Hill is that you *can* walk from one 
>bar to the next...I'd argue that setup is a net PLUS for everyone involved.

Yes, I love our location for that reason - and my agenda isn't to
prevent other bars in the area from making money too.  I support those
bars myself.  But, as you say, if people are coming to that part of
town primarily for a band that I'm often paying for, I'd like to
capitalize on that as much as possible (or more specifically, try to
recoup the cost of that show as there are many nights where the bands
pay is subsidized by the bar.)

With that said, this is why I'm a huge proponent of the free show
concept.  The barrier to entry is removed and people feel they can pop
in and out - and with so many bars in the area, on such nights, Local
506 can become one of many stops along the way.  And that normally
translates to two or three times as many people coming out to see the
bands.  In honesty, I'm not even sure why any local band at the level
of 506 charges a cover (but we'll save that for a different thread!)

>I'd add to that "and really long-ass lags between bands...

As far as lag-times, these are never exaggerated on behalf of the bar
- unless a show is running ahead of schedule and then I might ask the
headliner to wait til x-time to go on as, it's likely some people have
been told a specific time (and might not have show up yet, or possibly
left for another bar...)  Likewise, there is the occasional show that
starts late because there are so many new members that we can't get
them in quickly enough (so again, I don't want someone to miss a band
because we don't have the manpower to get them in more quickly.)

Besides that, the variables in the mix for this involve how fast the
sound guy is and/or how difficult the set-up of the bands are.
Regarding the latter, I do put thought into this when booking shows -
because I've gotten shit from my soundguys for making their job so
difficult. So basically, it seems, everyone on the bar end wants this
to take place as quickly as possible.

The other reason this might take longer is most shows are now three-
bands.  Used to be, two bands would suffice but I think three-bands is
a reaction to supply and demand - there are more bands these days, yet
the demand for most openers isn't as great, so there are two opening
acts.

>Making your club somewhere inviting enough that people hang around between 
>bands is helpful, too,.

I'll be the first to say that Local 506 has a lot of room for
improvement.  I'll also be the first to say that, as owner, we don't
necessarily have the funds for a huge face-lift and, unfortunately,
because of the day-to-day aspects of running the club, I don't have as
much time as I'd like to tweak everything that could use tweaking.

For what it's worth, when I'm working, I do put thought into what
music we play in between bands - so that it's more catered to that
audience.  Heck, it'd be great if we could have DJ's for our bigger
show (and even host dance shows afterward) but these are some of the
many things I think about (and then realize, oh shit, I've got to
update our website, and respond to the 50 emails I got, order beer,
call in payroll, etc.)

But ultimately, I'm open to suggestions and, in honesty, am looking
for employees who not only have ideas, but are interested in
implemented them. The frustrating thing for me is that everyone
expects me to do all of this stuff myself - I am only one person (who
is losing his sidekick in a couple days.)  Heck, it took two years to
get Music Trivia off the ground and that was a fairly easy one.

>It sounds to me like the bottom-line of your argument is this: people
only buy drinks between bands. If the club is nonsmoking, then the
smokers will go next door and buy drinks there between bands, and then
come back when the next band plays, thus draining your profits away.

Not at all, it' s more that there are some people who come to shows,
pay the cover yet rarely leave the bar area.  In fact, in just the
past week, I can think of two shows where, in each case, a group of
four people or less came in *only* to drink.  And, on both accounts,
their collective tab equated to at least 25% of that nights bar
sales.    Granted, these were slower nights, but regardless, those
people drink about five-times more than the average person who was
there to specifically see the band.

To a certain degree, the music scene needs such people. I only make
money from the bar so, if you removed the heavier-drinkers from the
equation (which is my concern) - it's just one more hurdle a club like
Local 506 has to climb to continue staying in business.

>Hey glen, do you have any smoke filtering equipment in the club?

We do have a fan system at the front/rear of the club that is designed
to pull smoke out of the club.  It works, but isn't great.  I'm open
to ideas!

>Mr. Grady, Mr. Glenn, do you guys think that lags
between bands is about the same as it has always been
or have they been getting longer?  I feel like they're
longer, but I am a lot older than I used to be so I
just figured it was the curmudgeon gene kicking in.

Again, I think this is likely a combination of bigger bills (three or
four bands) and the fact that  bands are more complex now.  Used to be
most bands were bass/guitar/drum sprimarily, but now you get a lot
more instrumentation in the mix with some bands.


>>>i agree with grady, if he's right about the kind of people that come
to shows. glenn, you would know better: do you think people come for
the music primarily or the drinks/smoking? would the amount of people
that would have a newfound enthusiasm for a smoke-free club outweigh
the people who would not come because they can't smoke?

As mentioned above, depending on the night, at least 90% of the crowd
is there for the show. However, that 10% that is there for 'the
environment' (ie: there are people who come out regularly to shows
because they like the live-music environment) normally spend a lot
more money at the bar.  There are no regulars at 506 per se, but there
are people that we see quite regularly.

Again, that 10% of the crowd can account for a much greater proportion
of bar sales - I don't have an exact number but per the shows
mentioned above, it was 25%.  So possibly, each show would have to
draw at about 25% more people to even out.  I realize that's some
fuzzy math, but I'm just trying to ballpark this.

If I were convinced that would happen, then we'd be non-smoking - but
at this point, I'm just not convinced.  As I always say, there's a
reason comedy club's have a two drink minimum - your cover charge
likely only covers the talent and the venue primarily relies on drink
sales!

Okay, hope that helps...glenn