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Subject: Development of Creative Commons licenses

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  • From: Erik Sandberg <erik.sandberg.9195 AT student.uu.se>
  • To: "Branko Collin" <collin AT xs4all.nl>
  • Cc: Erik.Sandberg.9195 AT student.uu.se, Discussion on the Creative Commons license drafts <cc-licenses AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Licensing of old out-of-copyright facsimiles?]
  • Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 02:31:16 +0100

On Tuesday 14 December 2004 15.13, Branko Collin wrote:
> On 14 Dec 2004, at 1:24, Erik Sandberg wrote:
> > Yes. I can choose between photocopies and scans of this material,
> > which is clearly public domain. But I am not allowed to assist in the
> > copying process, I have to pay them to do it. For some vague reasons,
> > the library does not only claim copyright for the photocopying action,
> > they also use the copyright to put very high restrictions on the
> > notes.
> >
> > It's a big library (Uppsala University library, www.ub.uu.se) and they
> > do have their own lawyers, so I assume their copyright claims are
> > legal.
>
> I have yet to hear of countries in which copyright claims are
> illegal. (Although Australia has a law that comes close.)

Sorry, "valid" was the word I was looking for, "legal" was not what I meant.

> That does not mean, though, that their claims are valid, unless
> Swedish copyright law is even stupider and more restrictive than
> those in the rest of the world (which I doubt--see Church of
> Scientology vs. Zenon Panoussis).
>
> Still, even if the law were on your side, I can well imagine that you
> do not wish to stir up problems of any kind. Keep in mind though that
> you are still looking for a work-around. Your archive wants absolute
> control over everything in its care; organisations like them are
> probably not willing to give up even a fraction of its control.

I have now been talking to different people. First, I talked to a lawyer at
the Professional Photocompanies and Photoagancies Association (www.blf.se),
he said that photocopies of out-of-copyright works are out of copyright,
while
photographs of them aren't. Photographs have this weaker 50-year limit.

He also said that scanning legally should count as photocopying.

I also spoke to the chief librarian of Uppsala (Ulf Goranson), he claimed
that
though photocopies are out-of-copyright, scanning counts as photographing and
is copyrightable.

In any case, it is in my interest to avoid doing what the library doesn't
want
me to do. I want to cooperate with them and create music, I don't want to
have them as an enemy. So my next step is that I will try to convince the
librarians that it is in the library's interest that the work is distributed
using a CC license. Hopefully they will agree (meaning that any copyright is
irrelevant), and even more important, they might understand something new
about CC and information freedom.

> Is there a specific reason why you need exactly these manuscripts. It
> is my experience in the Netherlands that second hand book sellers
> sometimes do not know the value of public domain sheet music, and
> sell it much cheaper than books from the same era.

Value? There is so little value in such music, that it even is public
domain :P

> If your goal is to
> just expand the Mutopia library, you might find that getting sheet
> music from second hand shops is cheaper than getting photocopies off
> your archive.

I have specific needs of specific notes in this particular archive, this is
related to some projects I'm involved in.

Also, when I typeset music, I want to do a real high-quality Urtext edition,
not a copy of an arrangement or something (which is a bit too common for 19th
century books). Facsimiles are required for this.

Erik




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