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  • From: Haggen So <haggen_so AT yahoo.com>
  • To: Jack Qiu <jacklqiu AT gmail.com>, cc-hk AT lists.ibiblio.org, jerry.tschan.yu AT gmail.com
  • Subject: Re: [Cc-hk] CC-HK Social Gathering
  • Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 02:08:31 -0700 (PDT)


About the content of the next CC-HK, I will like to first follow up the CC legal assistance for the defense discussion. I am thinking about a more concrete suggestion to CC following point 3 of my last email on the matter(4 Aug,attached). Since CC cannot offer official legal assistance for the defense, I would suggest that CC to informally ask Pamela Jones to open one more category on her Groklaw site (http://www.groklaw.net/) on legal matters of CC. In fact, Groklaw already got an article on a CC case in Netherland (http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.php?story=20060316052623594). Links can be added from the CC main site to this category or maybe a news announcement to kick off community building. Hopefully the site can become a more centralized archive for CC cases and a place for discussion. Ultimately, I hope that everyone who are interested in CC can learn from this site and explain to others how CC licenses are defensible.

About the Emoticons idea, I actually did a bit more thinking and found some obstacles. One of the biggest problem is how to attribute the author and attach the license when a by-nc-nd licensed Emoticon is used in IM(MSN, ICQ, etc). I would be happy to share the details in the meeting.

I will be available for the Wikipedians Macau trip on 20-21. For the Practical Workshop on the Use of CC Materials, I should be available if it is held in the afternoon. I have to "see see" if in the morning as I am getting a new job soon.

Haggen

On Wed, 3 Oct 2007, Ben wrote:

Here is the Wiki page of the Macau Wikipedians Gathering (In Chinese):

http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:%E8%81%9A%E6%9C%83/2007%E9%A6%99%E6%B8%AF%E7%A7%8B%E8%81%9A

I'm not sure about weather we should combine the activities since they
are going to visit different places in Macau during 20-21st. But it is
great to meet some Wikipedians anyway :-)

Any opinion on that? And any thought on the content of the gathering for
CC-HK?

Ben

On 10/3/07, Jack Qiu <jacklqiu AT gmail.com> wrote:
Yes, I'd like to meet wikipedians as well. Let me know the time and place.
If possible, I can stop by Macau on my way to/from Guangzhou.

Jack


On 10/3/07, Rebecca MacKinnon <rebecca.mackinnon AT gmail.com> wrote:
That sounds like a good idea.

On 10/2/07, J Aaron Farr <farra AT apache.org> wrote:

Jeromy-Yu Chan is trying to organize a social in Macau for Hong Kong,
Guangzhou, and Macau wikipedians on the weekend of the 20-21st. Maybe
we could combine events?

Ben <chpapa AT gmail.com> writes:

Hi all,

I have open this new email thread to continue the discussion of next
meeting. Let's discuss here and see if we would like to have a meeting
in Oct or we would wait.

Haggen So suggests that we would need a informal social gathering to
know each other better, and Charles said he may help on the Venue. So
what about a get-together instead of a formal meeting?

To start with, here are what we have got from the previous email
thread, please feel free to make comment or any changes

Date: Oct? (Any suggestions?)
Venue: ??? (Charles may help think/suggest and ask?)

Content (Just list some possibilities, please comment):
1. Maybe some report from the Legal Team?
2. Discussion / Brainstorm / Call for Participants for :
2a. Practical CC-HK Workshop, Chan-yau
2b. CC Content Directory Project by Prof. Thomas Lee
2c. Haggen So explain his idea (on Wiki now) in person?
3. Social Gathering

Ben

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--
Rebecca MacKinnon
Assistant Professor, Journalism & Media Studies Ctr.
University of Hong Kong (http://jmsc.hku.hk )
E-mail: rmack AT hku.hk | Tel: +852-2219-4005
Blog: http://RConversation.blogs.com
Co-founder: http://GlobalVoicesOnline.org
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The Chinese University of Hong Kong


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Email: ben AT bencheng.net
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From haggen_so AT yahoo.com Sat Aug 4 02:34:46 2007
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 02:34:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Haggen So <haggen_so AT yahoo.com>
To: Rebecca MacKinnon <rebecca.mackinnon AT gmail.com>
Cc: cc-hk AT lists.ibiblio.org, ying chan <yingchan88 AT gmail.com>, Doreen
Weisenhaus <doreen AT hku.hk>, Peter Yu <peter_yu AT msn.com>
Subject: Re: [Cc-hk] Monday's CC meeting

> ATTENDEES: (Please correct me if I got your name wrong or let me know if I
> missed your name. I didn't have everybody's full name and not necessarily
> all
> titles.)
>
> Dr. Catharina Maracke, International Coordinator, Creative Commons
> International
> Prof. Ying Chan, Director, HKU Journalism & Media Studies Ctr.
> Li Yahong & Alice Lee, HKU Law Faculty
> Hagen (sorry don't have full name - please let me know)

Not a problem, I did not make the spelling my name known to you on the
night. My name is Haggen So ^_^

> Deki - famous "Just a Sidekick" blogger :)
> Janet Lau - City University
> Micky Yip - City U, Legalvoice.hk
> Nicky Tse - Trainee solicitor, Hau, Lau, Li & Yeung
> Paul Cheung - City U., Legalvoice.hk
> Chong Chan-yao HKU director of student dev
> Ben & Oiwan Lam, Inmedia
> Randy Shek - DotAsia lawyer, HKU, etc
> Charles Mok - HK Internet Society etc.
> Kenneth Yip- ASTRI.org - HK Applied Science & Technology Research Institute
> Greg, Chinese U. information engineering student
> Uta Lam - blogger, web 2.0 entrepreneur
> Yat Siu, CEO of Outblaze
> Rebecca MacKinnon, HKU
>
Just a follow-up question. I think it was Nicky who brought up the
question about assistance from CC to defense the licenses. Catharina's
response (correct me if I am wrong, as I also have an "illegal mind") was
that the assistance was minimal as CC was only responsible for providing
the licenses. Catharina also hinted that there might be legal
difficulties if CC became proactive in reinforcing the licenses. The FAQ
on CC also gives a similar answer
http://wiki.creativecommons.org/FAQ#Will_Creative_Commons_help_me_enforce_my_license.3F

I dug around the Internet about reinforcing GPL (in short, an
Attribute-ShareAlike license for software, around since mid-80s) and had a
number of interesting observations. I found that there were as least
three approaches:

1. Free Software Foundation (FSF)
See FSF Free Software Licensing
http://www.fsf.org/licensing

FSF is the administrator of GPL and this foundation also proactively deals
with license compliance problems. One reason for this is that FSF holds
the copyrights for many popular free software programs, such as GCC and
glibc. Therefore, they just have to enforce those licenses themselves.
So if an author transfers the copyright of his or her GPLed software to
FSF, FSF will defense it. Of course, FSF does not just accept any GPLed
code and I have to find out more on the criteria.

2. Other than FSF, there are a number of organisations friendly but
independent from FSF dealing with the enforcement of GPL. Examples are:

GPL Violations.org Homepage
http://gpl-violations.org/

Software Freedom Law Center
http://www.softwarefreedom.org/

3. There is also some information providing sites. One example is
Groklaw(http://www.groklaw.net/). Though it has the "no legal advice"
disclaimer, this online community contributed substantially to defensing
Linux in the SCO vs IBM case.

When we consider that GPL Violations.org was established in late 2003, by
June 2006, they already rectified 100 cases of GPL
violations(http://gpl-violations.org/about.html#history). Also from the
story told by Rebecca and Oiwan, CC license violations happen. I think it
may be useful to discuss the approaches listed as a starting point and see
what can be improved on helping CC users to defense the licenses.

Haggen

>
> Rebecca MacKinnon
> Assistant Professor, Journalism & Media Studies Ctr.
> University of Hong Kong (http://jmsc.hku.hk)
>
> email: rmack AT hku.hk
> blog: www.RConversation.com
> Tel: +852-2219-4005
>
> Co-founder:
> www.GlobalVoicesOnline.org
> "The world is talking. Are you listening?"
>




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