Cc-hk mailing list

[Haggen So <haggen_so AT yahoo.com>]

About the content of the next CC-HK, I will like to first follow up the CC 
legal assistance for the defense discussion.  I am thinking about a more 
concrete suggestion to CC following point 3 of my last email on the 
matter(4 Aug,attached).  Since CC cannot offer official legal assistance 
for the defense, I would suggest that CC to informally ask Pamela Jones to 
open one more category on her Groklaw site (http://www.groklaw.net/) on 
legal matters of CC.  In fact, Groklaw already got an article on a CC case 
in Netherland 
(http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.php?story=20060316052623594).  Links 
can be added from the CC main site to this category or maybe a news 
announcement to kick off community building.  Hopefully the site can 
become a more centralized archive for CC cases and a place for discussion. 
Ultimately, I hope that everyone who are interested in CC can learn from 
this site and explain to others how CC licenses are defensible.

About the Emoticons idea, I actually did a bit more thinking and found 
some obstacles.  One of the biggest problem is how to attribute the author 
and attach the license when a by-nc-nd licensed Emoticon is used in 
IM(MSN, ICQ, etc).  I would be happy to share the details in the meeting.

I will be available for the Wikipedians Macau trip on 20-21.  For the 
Practical Workshop on the Use of CC Materials, I should be available if it 
is held in the afternoon.  I have to "see see" if in the morning as I am 
getting a new job soon.

Haggen

On Wed, 3 Oct 2007, Ben wrote:

> Here is the Wiki page of the Macau Wikipedians Gathering (In Chinese):
>
> http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:%E8%81%9A%E6%9C%83/2007%E9%A6%99%E6%B8%AF%E7%A7%8B%E8%81%9A
>
> I'm not sure about weather we should combine the activities since they
> are going to visit different places in Macau during 20-21st. But it is
> great to meet some Wikipedians anyway :-)
>
> Any opinion on that? And any thought on the content of the gathering for 
> CC-HK?
>
> Ben
>
> On 10/3/07, Jack Qiu <jacklqiu AT gmail.com> wrote:
> > Yes, I'd like to meet wikipedians as well. Let me know the time and place.
> > If possible, I can stop by Macau on my way to/from Guangzhou.
> >
> > Jack
> >
> >
> > On 10/3/07, Rebecca MacKinnon <rebecca.mackinnon AT gmail.com> wrote:
> > > That sounds like a good idea.
> > >
> > > On 10/2/07, J Aaron Farr <farra AT apache.org> wrote:
> > > > Jeromy-Yu Chan is trying to organize a social in Macau for Hong Kong,
> > > > Guangzhou, and Macau wikipedians on the weekend of the 20-21st.  Maybe
> > > > we could combine events?
> > > >
> > > > Ben <chpapa AT gmail.com> writes:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi all,
> > > > >
> > > > > I have open this new email thread to continue the discussion of next
> > > > > meeting. Let's discuss here and see if we would like to have a meeting
> > > > > in Oct or we would wait.
> > > > >
> > > > > Haggen So suggests that we would need a informal social gathering to
> > > > > know each other better, and Charles said he may help on the Venue. So
> > > > > what about a get-together instead of a formal meeting?
> > > > >
> > > > > To start with, here are what we have got from the previous email
> > > > > thread, please feel free to make comment or any changes
> > > > >
> > > > > Date: Oct? (Any suggestions?)
> > > > > Venue: ??? (Charles may help think/suggest and ask?)
> > > > >
> > > > > Content (Just list some possibilities, please comment):
> > > > > 1. Maybe some report from the Legal Team?
> > > > > 2. Discussion / Brainstorm / Call for Participants for :
> > > > > 2a. Practical CC-HK Workshop, Chan-yau
> > > > > 2b. CC Content Directory Project by Prof. Thomas Lee
> > > > > 2c. Haggen So explain his idea (on Wiki now) in person?
> > > > > 3. Social Gathering
> > > > >
> > > > > Ben
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Ben Cheng
> > > > > Mobile: 93816083
> > > > > Email: ben AT bencheng.net
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Cc-hk mailing list
> > > > > Cc-hk AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > > > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-hk
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >   J Aaron Farr     jadetower.com        [US] +1 724-964-4515
> > > >     ñÈ·æ¿Î          cubiclemuses.com     [HK] +852 8123-7905
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Cc-hk mailing list
> > > > Cc-hk AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-hk
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Rebecca MacKinnon
> > > Assistant Professor, Journalism & Media Studies Ctr.
> > > University of Hong Kong   (http://jmsc.hku.hk )
> > > E-mail: rmack AT hku.hk | Tel: +852-2219-4005
> > > Blog: http://RConversation.blogs.com
> > > Co-founder: http://GlobalVoicesOnline.org
> > > "The world is talking. Are you listening?"
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Cc-hk mailing list
> > > Cc-hk AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-hk
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jack Linchuan Qiu, Ph.D.
> >
> > Assistant Professor
> > School of Journalism and Communication,
> > The Chinese University of Hong Kong
>
>
> --
> Ben Cheng
> Mobile: 93816083
> Email: ben AT bencheng.net
> _______________________________________________
> Cc-hk mailing list
> Cc-hk AT lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-hk
From haggen_so AT yahoo.com Sat Aug  4 02:34:46 2007
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 02:34:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Haggen So <haggen_so AT yahoo.com>
To: Rebecca MacKinnon <rebecca.mackinnon AT gmail.com>
Cc: cc-hk AT lists.ibiblio.org, ying chan <yingchan88 AT gmail.com>, Doreen 
Weisenhaus <doreen AT hku.hk>, Peter Yu <peter_yu AT msn.com>
Subject: Re: [Cc-hk] Monday's CC meeting

> ATTENDEES: (Please correct me if I got your name wrong or let me know if I 
> missed your name. I didn't have everybody's full name and not necessarily 
> all 
> titles.)
>
> Dr. Catharina Maracke, International Coordinator, Creative Commons 
> International
> Prof. Ying Chan, Director, HKU Journalism & Media Studies Ctr.
> Li Yahong & Alice Lee, HKU Law Faculty
> Hagen (sorry don't have full name - please let me know)

Not a problem, I did not make the spelling my name known to you on the 
night.  My name is Haggen So ^_^

> Deki - famous "Just a Sidekick" blogger :)
> Janet Lau - City University
> Micky Yip - City U, Legalvoice.hk
> Nicky Tse - Trainee solicitor, Hau, Lau, Li & Yeung
> Paul Cheung - City U., Legalvoice.hk
> Chong Chan-yao HKU director of student dev
> Ben & Oiwan Lam, Inmedia
> Randy Shek - DotAsia lawyer, HKU, etc
> Charles Mok - HK Internet Society etc.
> Kenneth Yip- ASTRI.org - HK Applied Science & Technology Research Institute
> Greg, Chinese U. information engineering student
> Uta Lam - blogger, web 2.0 entrepreneur
> Yat Siu, CEO of Outblaze
> Rebecca MacKinnon, HKU
>
Just a follow-up question.  I think it was Nicky who brought up the 
question about assistance from CC to defense the licenses.  Catharina's 
response (correct me if I am wrong, as I also have an "illegal mind") was 
that the assistance was minimal as CC was only responsible for providing 
the licenses.  Catharina also hinted that there might be legal 
difficulties if CC became proactive in reinforcing the licenses. The FAQ 
on CC also gives a similar answer 
http://wiki.creativecommons.org/FAQ#Will_Creative_Commons_help_me_enforce_my_license.3F

I dug around the Internet about reinforcing GPL (in short, an 
Attribute-ShareAlike license for software, around since mid-80s) and had a 
number of interesting observations.  I found that there were as least 
three approaches:

1. Free Software Foundation (FSF)
See FSF Free Software Licensing
http://www.fsf.org/licensing

FSF is the administrator of GPL and this foundation also proactively deals 
with license compliance problems.  One reason for this is that FSF holds 
the copyrights for many popular free software programs, such as GCC and 
glibc.  Therefore, they just have to enforce those licenses themselves.
So if an author transfers the copyright of his or her GPLed software to 
FSF, FSF will defense it.  Of course, FSF does not just accept any GPLed 
code and I have to find out more on the criteria.

2. Other than FSF, there are a number of organisations friendly but 
independent from FSF dealing with the enforcement of GPL.  Examples are:

GPL Violations.org Homepage
http://gpl-violations.org/

Software Freedom Law Center
http://www.softwarefreedom.org/

3. There is also some information providing sites.  One example is 
Groklaw(http://www.groklaw.net/).  Though it has the "no legal advice" 
disclaimer, this online community contributed substantially to defensing 
Linux in the SCO vs IBM case.

When we consider that GPL Violations.org was established in late 2003, by 
June 2006, they already rectified 100 cases of GPL 
violations(http://gpl-violations.org/about.html#history).  Also from the 
story told by Rebecca and Oiwan, CC license violations happen.  I think it 
may be useful to discuss the approaches listed as a starting point and see 
what can be improved on helping CC users to defense the licenses.

Haggen

>
> Rebecca MacKinnon
> Assistant Professor, Journalism & Media Studies Ctr.
> University of Hong Kong   (http://jmsc.hku.hk)
>
> email: rmack AT hku.hk
> blog: www.RConversation.com
> Tel: +852-2219-4005
>
> Co-founder:
> www.GlobalVoicesOnline.org
> "The world is talking. Are you listening?"
>