Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

cc-europe - Re: [CC-Europe] EDRI

cc-europe AT lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Cc-europe mailing list

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: Wolf Ludwig <wolf.ludwig AT comunica-ch.net>
  • To: Gisle Hannemyr <gisle AT ifi.uio.no>, cc-europe AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [CC-Europe] EDRI
  • Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2012 00:04:10 +0200

Hi,

I read with interest and lot of sympathy Teresa’s differentiated reasoning on
the subject and how she is handling the CC issues and challenges as an IP
lawyer and her thoughts on “how can someone be in favour of criminalising
such ‘piracy’ acts”? And in this respect, I strongly DISagree with Gisle
Hannemyr and his deliberations “about criminalising piracy in public“ and his
statements on „criminal procedures and penalties on acts of piracy, where he
has „no problem with“. And thanks for his generosity towards Teresa and
others to „hold and express any opinion you like about this”! And I believe,
there is an obvious need to continue this debate!

As a father of two school-aged girls, I am deeply concerned about this,
particularly on such a list. For the following reasons:

* I am doing my best to explain my daughters rights and wrongs incl. to
respect rights of others in their daily life and Online behaviour. This
includes media and Internet education or how to consider other peoples’
rights when downloading or sharing pictures and other content (BTW, downloads
are legal in Switzerland, only uploads may be illegal). And they are already
aware about alternative licencing models besides the standard copyrights and
are sensitive to deal with it;

* There is an abusive tendency about copy and IP rights in the mainstream
discourse called “piracy” or “Raubkopien”, I do not want to stress in detail
here – see:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/84904415/Der-Spiegel-Raubkopie
what doesn’t illume basics of the public interest and what is not at all
reflected or questioned in Gisle Hannemyr’s deliberations arguing “law is
law” (in Norway or elsewhere), whether it fits to digital environments or
realities doesn’t matter but it needs to be enforced … at any price …

* Again, as a father of two kids, I am deeply concerned about current
tendencies to criminalize a generation of youngsters for any kind of
pretended or real IP rights abuses, enacted by a powerful IP lobby without
any differentiation on creators (“Schöpfer” or “Urheber”) and the right
holders industry who systematically bought out the creators over the last
couple of years and enforcing their claims with all means now. “Law is law”
and no need to try any sophisticated distinctions like Teresa thoughtfully
explained in her remarks on enforcement via civil courts versus criminal
courts … what makes a BIG difference!

I must admit, I am somehow bewildered about the expressed easiness on “the
criminalisation of piracy (and probably a lot of other things)“ and I can
only agree to strongly disagree! If my “private” opinion on this may
“conflict with the mission of the organization”, I beg you pardon and must
have misunderstood something about CC fundamentally and from the very
beginning. BTW, I am a journalist and author since many years myself.

Best,
Wolf


Gisle Hannemyr wrote Sun, 01 Apr 2012 04:46

>On 31.03.2012 20:45, Teresa Nobre wrote:
>> As far as I know, SOPA, PIPA and ACTA do not interfere with the CC licences
>> and tools as such. If that's all that matters for CC, we can end the
>> discussion here. If not (and I sense it's not), let's continue the
>> discussion.
>
>OK
>
>> To be honest, I can’t even understand how can someone be
>> in favour of criminalising such “piracy” acts. Maybe because I'm married
>> with a criminal judge who deals everyday with imprisoned people (meaning
>> individuals, named Ana and Bernard, not people numbered 1 and 2), maybe
>> because I've been there counselling and prison in real life smells and
>> tastes and hurts (and it's not just a bad dream), maybe because I do value
>> a lot freedom and I think that any limitation of one's freedom should
>> always be the last resource.
>
>While I disagree, that's fine with me. You can hold and express
>any opinion you like about this.
>
>The question is: Should you, in the capacity of being a CC officer
>and spokesperson, express this opinion about criminalising piracy
>in public? (For avoidance of doubt: You may of course say whatever
>you want in public in the capacity of being a citizen).
>
>My country, Norway, imposes criminal procedures and penalties
>on acts of piracy. I have no problem with that.
>
>Our neighbour, Sweden, also imposes criminal procedures and penalties
>on acts of piracy. In the the recent Pirate Bay trial, four
>individuals were found guilty of aiding and abetting criminal
>piracy, and given prison sentences as follows: Gottfrid Svartholm
>Warg (12 months), Fredrik Neij (10 months), Peter Sunde Kolmisoppi
>(8 months), Carl Lundström (4 months). I have no problem with that.
>
>However, when asked by the media to comment on the Swedish prison
>sentences in the capacity of being the public head of CC Norway,
>I've always declined to comment.
>
>*If* I had commented, I would probably have said something this:
>
> Creative Commons provides tools and licenses that allows artists
> to better control the distribution and sharing of their own works.
> Creative Commons do not approve of acts that aids and abets those
> who take the law into their own hands to take this control away
> from the artist. Therefore, we believe that the criminal sanctions
> imposed on these four men are appropriate.
>
>I could have gone on to argue that operations like The Pirate Bay is
>harmful to, and interferes with, Creative Commons tools and licenses
>by running an operation that makes those tools and licenses redundant.
>However, since I suspect that some of you do not necessarily share
>this opinion, I decided to keep my mouth shut.
>
>My point is simple this: We obviously hold different opinions about
>the criminalisation of piracy (and probably a lot of other things).
>I think we can agree to disagree about these things, and still both
>work for the same organisation, as long as our private opinions does
>not conflict with the mission of the organization.
>
>However, it will be confusing to the public, harmful to the reputation
>of the Creative Commons, and also create friction within the
>organisation, if miscellaneous CC officers publicly take *opposing*
>positions on various controversial issues (e.g. ACTA, SOPA, PIPA,
>etc.) that strictly speaking has very little to do with the mission
>of Creative Commons.
>--
>- gisle hannemyr [ gisle{at}hannemyr.no - http://folk.uio.no/gisle/ ]
>========================================================================
> "Don't follow leaders // Watch the parkin' meters" - Bob Dylan
>_______________________________________________
>CC-Europe mailing list
>CC-Europe AT lists.ibiblio.org
>http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-europe
>
>

EuroDIG Secretariat
http://www.eurodig.org/
mobile +41 79 204 83 87
Skype: Wolf-Ludwig

EURALO - ICANN's Regional At-Large Organisation
http://euralo.org

Profile on LinkedIn
http://ch.linkedin.com/in/wolfludwig


Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page