Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Jerry Shepherd <jshepherd53 AT gmail.com>]

Hi Barry,

 

Thanks for this.  But allow me to press a distinction I'm thinking of in asking the question.  In your last sentence you said, "I have no doubt that an 11th century French speaker would  have pronounced Latin filtered through medieval French."

 

I agree with this to a large extent, and understand that, for example, Latin words would have been "Frenchized" in normal conversation, sermons, and even liturgy.  But it also seems to me that this would have been less true for the professional academics who were working with the Latin texts, copying them, and doing hermeneutical and commentary work on them.  So, going back to Will's example, a scholar may have well "Frenchized an original Iulius to Julius in normal conversation, but would still have recognized that the actual pronunciation was I rather than J, and would have used the more accurate pronunciation in a more scholarly context.  But maybe I'm out to lunch.

 

Thanks and blessings,

 

Jerry

Jerry Shepherd

Taylor Seminary

Edmonton, Alberta

jshepherd53 AT gmail.com

 

On Sat, Jul 13, 2013 at 7:12 PM, Barry <nebarry AT verizon.net> wrote:

On 7/13/2013 7:53 PM, Jerry Shepherd wrote:> (2) You rightly state,
"Lacking a time machine we cannot be absolutely
 > sure, but we can
 > reconstruct this with a fair degree of confidence."Actually, I don't
 > have the same level of confidence you do in your reconstruction. What is
 > your actual evidence that a reader of a Latin text imposed a French
 > pronunciation on it?I agree with you that replacing a I sound with a J
 > sound would have been a "normal phonological development in the
 > evolution of Latin into Old French."But I would need to see greater
 > evidence that an 11^th century French speaker, when trying to read and
 > pronounce a Latin text, would have made that change.
 >
 > Perhaps one of the Latin experts on the list, Barry Hofstetter could
 > chime in and give us his take on this.

I can only address this in the most general terms. Phonological change
was taking place during the entire period of Roman history.  We know
this from graffiti and from whatever non-literary examples of the
language which have survived. This process rapidly accelerated after 476
A.D. with the collapse of the political system, which had the effect of
isolating regions (and hence accelerating linguistic development), and
the collapse of the educational system, which meant that any attempt at
standardization was lost.

It is generally moderns who wish to reconstruct authentic pronunciation
of ancient languages, and mostly, in my experience, in America. I had a
professor in graduate school who did work at the Sorbonne. He stated
that they laughed at his pronunciation, and simply pronounced the words
as though they were French. Of course, everything sounds better in
French -- ask any Frenchman (is that term still politically
acceptable?). I have no doubt that an 11th century French speaker would
have pronounced Latin filtered through medieval French.

--
N.E. Barry Hofstetter
Semper melius Latine sonat
http://my.opera.com/barryhofstetter/blog

All opinions in this email are my own, and
reflect no institution with which I may be
associated

--
N.E. Barry Hofstetter
Semper melius Latine sonat
http://my.opera.com/barryhofstetter/blog

All opinions in this email are my own, and
reflect no institution with which I may be
associated
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