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  • From: "Rolf" <rolf.furuli AT sf-nett.no>
  • To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] G.Gertoux and the Name...
  • Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 19:11:32 +0200

Dear Barry,

I have one question to you. See below.


Onsdag 19. Juni 2013 13:51 CEST skrev Barry <nebarry AT verizon.net>:

> On 6/19/2013 1:31 AM, Jonathan Mohler wrote:
>
> This seems rather far afield from Biblical Hebrew, but oh well...
>
> > What Rolf is suggesting is not speculation, it is inference. Neither is
> > it circular reasoning. The fact that the NT mss have KS is a bonafide
> > conundrum. At least as it concerns the Gospel of Matthew, and at the
> > very least the sayings of Jesus. If there is one clear aspect of Jesus'
> > teaching is that he intentionally exposed man-made traditions which were
> > in direct violation of the Torah. He taught his disciples to disregard
> > them at every turn in full view of the Pharisees. (For the moderators'
> > sake: I am not making a faith statement just an argument from what is
> > commonly accepted and unambiguous). These "traditions of the fathers"
> > as they were so-called were /*well-intentioned*/. No one doubts that
> > the Rabbis had the welfare of the people in mind, but their effect was
> > to destroy the original intent of the Torah. This was the central
> > teaching of Jesus against these teachers. In this light, one can't help
> > but ask whether the tradition of concealing the name of God doesn't fall
> > under "traditions of the fathers" that supplant the law of God, and if so
>
> I'm sorry, but it's not a conundrum at all, and your rabbit trail on
> Jesus' teaching on tradition does nothing to explain the habits of
> scribes. You'll note that it's not just KURIOS which lends itself to a
> nomen sacrum. It's not an attempt to conceal the divine name, but an
> abbreviation which is explainable on other grounds -- see Hurtado and
> Comfort, much of whom Steven Avery has handily quoted in another post.
>
>
> > This part of the argument baffles me. The fact that the extant NT mss
> > all have KS says nothing about the first century. They just speak to
> > the fact that in the second century Scribes put KS for God's name.
> > That's all. There is no more evidence in these mss for KYRIOS than
> > for YHWH or IAO. And it doesn't matter if there is one MS or 5000 MSS.
> > Until we find MSS from the first century with KYRIOS, we cannot speak
> > of the newer documents as evidence. The scant evidence (OT Greek mss
> > BCE) that Rolf has presented speaks more to the issue than the silence
> > of the first century autographs. The argument may be weak, but as an
> > inductive argument, it is cogent.
>
> Again, a nomen sacrum is a form of abbreviation. If KS or the equivalent
> is used (the second letter varies according to the case of the word),
> then it is a logical and far easier explanation that the exemplar the
> copyist used had either KS or KURIOS.

QUESTION: Is KS in the second century CE LXX manuscripts an abbreviation? If
so, an abbreviation of what?



>
> --
> N.E. Barry Hofstetter
> Semper melius Latine sonat
> The American Academy
> http://www.theamericanacademy.net
> The North American Reformed Seminary
> http://www.tnars.net
> Bible Translation Magazine
> http://www.bible-translation.net
>
> http://my.opera.com/barryhofstetter/blog
>
> --
> N.E. Barry Hofstetter
> Semper melius Latine sonat
> The American Academy
> http://www.theamericanacademy.net
> The North American Reformed Seminary
> http://www.tnars.net
> Bible Translation Magazine
> http://www.bible-translation.net
>
> http://my.opera.com/barryhofstetter/blog
> _______________________________________________
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Best regards,



Rolf Furuli
Stavern
Norway







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