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- From: "Peter Streitenberger" <ps2866 AT bingo-ev.de>
- To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
- Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Verbal Aspect
- Date: Tue, 28 May 2013 13:27:09 +0200
Dear George,
I’m used to the terms perfective/imperfective, so I’d be glad to learn more
on definitness. What is the key issue here ? A clarifying example would be
helfpful for me.
Yours Peter Streitenberger, Germany Hi Karl!
I've changed the subject line of the thread.
Thanks for those links to SIL. The aspect definition they offer is along
the perfective-imperfect polarity, which I don't think has the explanatory power
of the definite-indefinite polarity. Their definition of definiteness is, as far
as I can see, limited to substantives, rather than verbs.
But let's come back to Prov 31.10–21. You can't see definiteness but I can.
Are you associating definiteness with a specific subject, while indefiniteness
adheres to an indefinite/generic subject? If so, I can understand why you can't
see definiteness, because the subject of the poem is 'a woman'. However, I'm not
defining definiteness in this way. That would be tying definiteness too closely
to the type of action (Aktionsart) rather than to the way the author depicts it
(aspect). You can still have a generic subject (eg. 'a woman') doing a definite
action—something that is presented in specificity. I used an analogy before
about camera zoom to capture this. A yiqtol is a wide angle view so that you see
the action as if from a distance. Think of a distance shot in a film. A qatal,
however, can present the exact same action but with different aspect—a more
close up view that fills the frame. The actions themselves are identical, but
the depiction is different. I think I would agree with you, therefore (shock
horror!), that the actions can be pretty much the same, but the change of verb
form provides a different angle (aspect!) of the action.
In my model of the Hebrew verb, definiteness is not the only category
considered. There are three categories I consider: definiteness (definite or
indefinite), proximity (close or distant), and complexity (simple or complex).
The breakdown of the major conjugations would be as follows:
Qatal: definite, close, simple. (eg. he killed, he has killed, he
had killed)
Yiqtol: indefinite, distant, complex (eg. he will kill, he might
kills, he should kill, he used to kill, he kills [gnomic])
Wayyiqtol: definite, closing in (producing narrative momentum),
simple (this is the narrative 'live action' verb)
Weqatal: takes its cue from a head clause, but is transparent (this
really is a Qatal, but the conjunction subordinates it grammatically to
something else, while the bare Qatal is independent).
In narrative and discourse, where timeframes are usually specified, the
verbs can be related to the timeframe to determine when the action occurs, even
though the verbs themselves don't tell you this. In poetry, however, there often
is no specific timeframe, and as such the aspects convey purely different ways
of looking at an action, which can be varied for stylistic variation. This kind
of stylistic variation, usually between Qatal and Yiqtol, is the product of
parallelism, which specifically looks for stylistic variation as a poetic
device.
Cheers!
GEORGE ATHAS
Dean of Research,
Moore Theological College (moore.edu.au)
Sydney,
Australia
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-
Re: [b-hebrew] Marathon
, (continued)
- Re: [b-hebrew] Marathon, George Athas, 05/27/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Marathon, Kevin W. Woodruff, 05/27/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Marathon, Barry, 05/28/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] to rolf, George Athas, 05/27/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] to rolf, K Randolph, 05/27/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] to rolf, Ruth Mathys, 05/28/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] to rolf, Rolf, 05/28/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] to rolf, George Athas, 05/28/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] to rolf, K Randolph, 05/28/2013
- [b-hebrew] Verbal Aspect, George Athas, 05/28/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Verbal Aspect, Peter Streitenberger, 05/28/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Verbal Aspect, Barry, 05/28/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Verbal Aspect, George Athas, 05/28/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Verbal Aspect, K Randolph, 05/28/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Verbal Aspect, George Athas, 05/28/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Verbal Aspect, K Randolph, 05/28/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Verbal Aspect, Ruth Mathys, 05/28/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Verbal Aspect, Ken Penner, 05/28/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Verbal Aspect, George Athas, 05/28/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Verbal Aspect, Dave Washburn, 05/28/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Verbal Aspect, George Athas, 05/28/2013
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