b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Biblical Hebrew Forum
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- From: K Randolph <kwrandolph AT gmail.com>
- To: Jerry Shepherd <jshepherd53 AT gmail.com>
- Cc: b-hebrew <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
- Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Lexemes and meanings
- Date: Tue, 7 May 2013 23:52:20 -0700
My apologies, there were a number of missing words in my last post. Here is a corrected version.
Hi Karl,
Some responses to your last couple of posts.
Karl: What I react against is the notion that as a general rule, words from the same background can have multiple meanings, often unrelated to each other. While that can be true on a longitudinal study where words change meaning, that is rare at any one point in time.
Jerry: But Karl, this is simply a very well recognized phenomenon. Words do have multiple meanings that are often unrelated to each other, as far as their usage is concerned. They may, and usually are, related to each other, but they don't have the same meaning. And it is not rare at any one point in time; rather, it is very common at any one point in time.
Karl: Even in “strike”, where it’s used in a seemingly opposite manner, is used in a highly specialized manner still referring back to the common action.
Jerry: Keep in mind that no one, as far as I can tell, is trying to argue that "strike," as commonly used in baseball, is unrelated to "strike," meaning "hit." That isn't the issue.
The issue is that it is complete nonsense to argue that, in some way, "strike" used to refer to a miss, and "strike" used to refer to a hit, still in some way constitute "one unique meaning." That position is indefensible.
Karl: Are you trying to say that because words can be use idiomatically, therefore Biblical Hebrew terms are in practice undefined and undefinable? That we can assign whatever meaning that we want to make any particular passage give the reading that we want it to have? I appears to me that this is what you are trying to argue for.
Jerry: This reductionism does not work. This is not at all what I am arguing, or, as far as I can tell, anyone else involved in this discussion.
Karl: How can I make it more clear, that I use a different methodology than Gesenius, BDB, HALOT and others, a methodology that looks at action and function where they look at form? And when looking at action, I see a unity of action where they see differences of form?
Jerry: First of all, I think you have very convoluted ideas about the difference of form and function. In fact, it seems to me that you have it completely backwards. You are the one fixated on a form, or an ur-function, where the lexicons are examining function in each context.
Karl: This is the reason I wrote my dictionary.
Jerry: And who uses this dictionary?
Karl: I have trouble understanding why you all don’t recognize what I say.
Jerry: Probably because they are too well-trained in linguistics, and aren't committed to a defending a position which is indefensible.
Karl: I have no idea what you’re talking about with this example, as I have not read an English translation of the Bible in decades.
Jerry: And this is to your credit?
To make sure this relates to Hebrew, take for example the word יכח. Perhaps in the majority of cases, it means something along the lines of "rebuke," "reproach," etc. But it can also mean to "argue a case," "to be vindicated," or "to arbitrate." It is very doubtful that the range in meaning is to be accounted for by postulating different roots. What we have with this word is a range of meanings, all probably related to some kind of original forensic or condemnatory context, but developing into very different and practically opposite meanings. To rebuke someone is exactly the opposite of either vindicating them or arbitrating on their behalf.
Looking forward to more discussion.
Blessings,
Jerry
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Lexemes and meanings
, (continued)
- Re: [b-hebrew] Lexemes and meanings, John Leake, 05/06/2013
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Lexemes and meanings,
K Randolph, 05/06/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Lexemes and meanings, John Leake, 05/07/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Lexemes and meanings, K Randolph, 05/08/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Lexemes and meanings, John Leake, 05/07/2013
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Lexemes and meanings,
Oun Kwon, 05/07/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Lexemes and meanings, K Randolph, 05/08/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Lexemes and meanings, John Leake, 05/08/2013
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Lexemes and meanings,
K Randolph, 05/08/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Lexemes and meanings, Jerry Shepherd, 05/09/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Lexemes and meanings, K Randolph, 05/09/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Lexemes and meanings, Jerry Shepherd, 05/10/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Lexemes and meanings, K Randolph, 05/10/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Lexemes and meanings, Ruth Mathys, 05/10/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Lexemes and meanings, David Kolinsky, 05/11/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Lexemes and meanings, K Randolph, 05/11/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] Lexemes and meanings, Jerry Shepherd, 05/11/2013
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