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Subject: Biblical Hebrew Forum
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- From: JimStinehart AT aol.com
- To: nir AT ccet.ufrn.br, b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
- Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] akkadian bible?
- Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 09:47:08 -0400 (EDT)
Nir Cohen: 1. You wrote: “…if it can be detected in the old
testament that some confusion exists between certain guttural letters, i imagine
that transliteration from akkadian is only one among many possible explanations
for this confusion.” A key linguistic support for
my view that the Patriarchal narratives were originally written down in Akkadian
cuneiform about four years after Year 14, using the Canaanite/pre-Hebrew/Hebrew
language, is this. In the received
text, (i) there often is a confusion of gutturals in exotic foreign proper
names, whereas (ii) all other letters in the received text seem to be
letter-for-letter perfect [including all gutturals in Hebrew common words]. The o-n-l-y place where one routinely sees wrong
letters in the received unpointed Masoretic text of the Patriarchal narratives
is regarding gutturals in non-Hebrew proper names. Such a pattern is antithetical to the
scholarly view that the Patriarchal narratives were an oral tradition for
centuries: an oral tradition (i)
would have little or no confusion of gutturals in foreign proper names per se,
but (ii) would have countless problems with all aspects of the spellings of
foreign proper names. Such a
pattern is also antithetical to a traditional religious view that the
Patriarchal narratives were at an early date recorded in writing using
alphabetical Hebrew: an early
alphabetical tradition (i) would have no confusion of gutturals in foreign
proper names, and (ii) would only have occasional scribal sloppiness errors,
rarely if ever confusing gutturals. So you see that an essential
proof of my view that the Patriarchal narratives are much older as a written
text than university scholars realize, having been recorded in Akkadian
cuneiform in the late Amarna time period, is that virtually the o-n-l-y time one sees spelling errors in the
received text is a confusion of gutturals in exotic non-Hebrew proper names,
which in all other regards feature perfect Late Bronze Age spellings from
various languages. This issue is a
very big deal for my theory of the case.
If there is no confusion of gutturals in foreign proper names in the
received text, I’m out of business, because that would mean that the Patriarchal
narratives did not start out being a written text in Akkadian cuneiform during
the Amarna Age. 2. You wrote: “the letters H and X are very similar in
the "new" aramaic alphabet, Consider the
objective facts there. In the
Amarna Age, we know that the 3. You wrote: “ i am not sure that your claims
concerning egyptian names and their cuneiform or semitic transliterations are
backed by the egyptologists.” If you looked at what Biblical
Egyptologists claim are the explanations of the Biblical Egyptian names near the
end of Genesis, you would be absolutely horrified. For example, it is “unanimously agreed”
by university scholars that the Hebrew ssade/C at the beginning of Joseph’s
Egyptian name allegedly represents two different Egyptian consonants with two
different pronunciations, being both Egyptian dj [alternatively rendered as
D] a-n-d regular Egyptian d, so that Hebrew ssade
allegedly renders the Egyptian word djed [alternatively transliterated as
Dd]. It is of course
manifestly i-m-p-o-s-s-i-b-l-e that a single Hebrew letter could
represent two different Egyptian consonants with two different
pronunciations! Lest you think I am
misrepresenting the utterly untenable scholarly view here, read it for
yourself: “[Joseph’s Egyptian name]
Ṣaphnathpane’aḫ is unanimously agreed to be
the transliteration of an Egyptian name-type that means ‘God N speaks (or spoke)
[djed] and he lives’. The type begins in the
21st Dynasty [1070-945 BCE], becomes very common in the ninth
through seventh centuries B.C., and thereafter peters out, though sporadic
examples survive in Greco-Roman times.”
Donald B. Redford, “ As you know, the second letter
in Joseph’s Egyptian name at Genesis 41: 45 is peh/P, so the single initial
letter Hebrew ssade/C is claimed by scholars, nay is “unanimously agreed” by
scholars, to represent both the dj
and the d in djed, which is inherently impossible on
its face. The scholarly
interpretation of the Biblical Egyptian names near the end of Genesis (not just
Joseph’s Egyptian name) cannot possibly stand the light of day. 4. You wrote: “as to BR( and BR$( , your argument
lacks any logical foundation: the fact that "(" is used in CH 14 is not an
argument that CH 15 was transliterated from akkadian.” How are you
interpreting the names BR( and BR$(?
I see them as being Semiticized Hurrian names, just like “Uriah”. Hurrian has no ayin [and no he/H
either]. Whereas the
10th century BCE scribe in King David’s Jerusalem
used ayin/( to show this Semiticization, the guttural used by the late
7th century BCE scribe in King Josiah’s Jerusalem is he/H,
both in the Semiticized Hurrian name “Keturah” and the Semiticized Hurrian name
“Uriah”. 5. To my comment that “Chapters 14 and 49
of Genesis were transformed into alphabetical Biblical Hebrew 300 years before
the rest of the Patriarchal narratives was transformed from Akkadian cuneiform
into alphabetical Biblical Hebrew”, you responded: “is it a fact? is it what you are trying
to prove? what is the evidence?” The evidence is that only
chapters 14 and 49 of Genesis have frequent archaisms regarding Hebrew common
words. As to Genesis
49: “Most of the Hebrew of Genesis
reads quite smoothly. Gen 49, one
of the specimens of archaic poetry in the OT, is an exception to this rule, and
its Hebrew will test the mettle of even the best Hebraist.” Victor P. Hamilton, “The Book of
Genesis” (1990), p. 73. Now ask yourself
what the only two parts of the Patriarchal narratives are that King David needed
to have readily available to support his kingship. Chapter 14 of Genesis shows a military
tradition of the early Hebrews, with King David surpassing Abraham in that
regard. Genesis 49: 8-10 features
YHWH saying that 6. You wrote: “ i have personally nothing against the
akkadian hypothesis, i just do not see enough evidence there to argue about it,
pro or con.” Each of my posts sets forth
additional evidence. I can only
give so many examples in a single post. Jim Stinehart |
-
Re: [b-hebrew] akkadian bible?
, (continued)
-
Re: [b-hebrew] akkadian bible?,
JimStinehart, 04/10/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] akkadian bible?, Nir cohen - Prof. Mat., 04/10/2013
-
Re: [b-hebrew] akkadian bible?,
R. Lehmann, 04/10/2013
-
Re: [b-hebrew] akkadian bible?,
George Athas, 04/11/2013
-
Re: [b-hebrew] akkadian bible?,
R. Lehmann, 04/11/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] akkadian bible?, J. Leake, 04/11/2013
-
Re: [b-hebrew] akkadian bible?,
K Randolph, 04/11/2013
-
Re: [b-hebrew] akkadian bible?,
George Athas, 04/11/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] akkadian bible?, K Randolph, 04/15/2013
-
Re: [b-hebrew] akkadian bible?,
George Athas, 04/11/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] akkadian bible?, George Athas, 04/11/2013
-
Re: [b-hebrew] akkadian bible?,
R. Lehmann, 04/11/2013
-
Re: [b-hebrew] akkadian bible?,
George Athas, 04/11/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] akkadian bible?, JimStinehart, 04/11/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] akkadian bible?, JimStinehart, 04/11/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] akkadian bible?, R. Lehmann, 04/12/2013
-
Re: [b-hebrew] akkadian bible?,
JimStinehart, 04/12/2013
-
Re: [b-hebrew] akkadian bible?,
Tory Thorpe, 04/22/2013
-
Re: [b-hebrew] akkadian bible?,
K Randolph, 04/22/2013
-
Re: [b-hebrew] hieratic bible? (was: akkadian bible?),
Tory Thorpe, 04/22/2013
-
Re: [b-hebrew] hieratic bible? (was: akkadian bible?),
K Randolph, 04/23/2013
-
Re: [b-hebrew] hieratic bible? (was: akkadian bible?),
Tory Thorpe, 04/23/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] hieratic bible? (was: akkadian bible?), K Randolph, 04/24/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] hieratic bible? (was: akkadian bible?), Tory Thorpe, 04/24/2013
-
Re: [b-hebrew] hieratic bible? (was: akkadian bible?),
Tory Thorpe, 04/23/2013
-
Re: [b-hebrew] hieratic bible? (was: akkadian bible?),
K Randolph, 04/23/2013
-
Re: [b-hebrew] hieratic bible? (was: akkadian bible?),
Tory Thorpe, 04/22/2013
-
Re: [b-hebrew] akkadian bible?,
K Randolph, 04/22/2013
-
Re: [b-hebrew] akkadian bible?,
Tory Thorpe, 04/22/2013
-
Re: [b-hebrew] akkadian bible?,
JimStinehart, 04/10/2013
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