b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Biblical Hebrew Forum
List archive
- From: JimStinehart AT aol.com
- To: wbparsons AT alum.mit.edu, b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
- Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] P R (H/"Pharaoh"" Three Meanings
- Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 09:49:55 -0400 (EDT)
Will
Parsons: 1.
You wrote: “The he at the
end of the Hebrew word may simply be graphic, a mater lectionis for the
preceding /o/, (which would imply that the Egyptian word was heard as [par‘o] or
something similar).” Only if PR(H came into the Patriarchal
narratives after 1200 BCE, which as we have been seeing is not the case, because
all of these Biblical names fit the Late Bronze Age perfectly. Lambdin’s classic article that I cited
specifically states his surprise at the lack of a final aleph/) here: “The date of the borrowing is somewhat
difficult to determine since the Egyptian form was doubtlessly approx. *per‘a3
for a considerable period of time before c. 1200 B. C. and per‘o after that
date.”
But that would not happen if the Patriarchal
narratives were written down in Akkadian cuneiform on clay tablets in the Amarna
Age, a la the Amarna Letters, which is my view of the case. We are slowly seeing
letter-for-letter e-x-a-c-t matches to vintage Amarna Age
nomenclature in these Biblical Egyptian names. There’s nothing post-Amarna about any of
these Biblical Egyptian names, in form or substance, because they were all
written down during the Amarna Age. 3. You wrote: “I don't follow your thinking here - it
seems to me that Hebrew he and heth would be good matches to Egyptian h and
ḥ.
respectively.” Not true. Alphabetical Hebrew heth/X matches
Egyptian heth/x. But what about
Egyptian regular h and Egyptian emphatic H? There’s only one alphabetical Hebrew
letter to do double duty there:
Hebrew he/H. 4. You wrote: “And why wouldn't an emphatic Egyptian
ḥ be represented by heth rather
than he?” Because Hebrew heth/X directly corresponds
to Egyptian heth/x. In addition to
Egyptian heth, Egyptian also had both regular h and emphatic H. For those two Egyptian letters, there’s
only Hebrew he/H. Hebrew cannot
directly represent emphatic H. By contrast, the name “Akhenaten” features
Egyptian heth/X, as it starts out:
ax [Egyptian ayin/a -- Egyptian heth/x], more informally transliterated
as: a-khe. But please save Hebrew heth/X for an
updated Biblical version of the name “Akhenaten”, which features Egyptian
heth/x. [Will, you’re threatening
to spoil the big surprise. We
haven’t gotten to Egyptian heth/x yet!]
Right now we’re talking about Egyptian regular h and Egyptian emphatic H,
and there’s only one alphabetical Hebrew letter to represent both of those two
distinct Egyptian letters: Hebrew
he/H. 5.
You wrote: “Why only in
initial position? If, as generally accepted, both Egyptian ‘ and Hebrew ‘ayin
represented a consonant, why wouldn't ‘ be represented by ’ayin in non-initial
position?” In initial position, Egyptian ayin/‘ must be
represented by its own separate alphabetical Hebrew letter, namely Hebrew
ayin/(. So for ax or a-khe, we’ll
see (X in alphabetical Hebrew. But in interior or final position, Egyptian
ayin/‘ is generally not represented by any Hebrew alphabetical letter at
all. Look at Amarna Letter EA 292:
36 written by the successor of evil Yapaxu [the “iniquitous Amorite” at Genesis
15: 16] at 6.
You wrote: “You're ignoring
the fact that the Egyptian spelling is pr-‘3, and that's represented in
Hieroglyphs [pr][‘3], where the bracketed letters represent single,
bi-consonantal hieroglyphs.” I’m not ignoring that. University scholars are baffled at why
there’s no Hebrew aleph/) at the end of PR(H, where instead we see Hebrew
he/H. University scholars are
expecting to see Hebrew peh/P-Hebrew resh/R for Egyptian [pr], and Hebrew
ayin/(-Hebrew aleph/) for Egyptian [‘3].
I’m not ignoring anything.
Rather, I am simply pointing out that on one level of meaning, the last
letter in PR(H represents Egyptian emphatic H, with the last two Hebrew letters,
(H, then representing aH in Egyptian, which is the Egyptian common word for
“palace”. Nifty! [But we’ve got two more levels of
intended meanings to go. So please
hold off on praA for now.] I hope you don’t think that the Patriarchal
narratives are copying Egyptian hieroglyphs. Not. Rather, the early Hebrew author is
accurately reflecting the sounds of these Egyptian words, but in the world of
Late Bronze Age 7.
You wrote: “The [pr]
hieroglyph, in particular, functions as an ideograph for "house", in addition to
its phonetic value. Egyptian p3-r’ would *not* be represented by
[pr].” You’re right on both counts, but that’s
totally irrelevant. When we get to
praA in my next post [and we haven’t gotten there yet!], we will in due course
see PR in Hebrew render pr in Egyptian, meaning “house”. But in H-e-b-r-e-w [unlike in Egyptian], the Hebrew letters
P R could just as easily represent pA ra in Egyptian. It’s a natural pun in H-e-b-r-e-w [using Egyptian words] that the early
Hebrew author was able to exploit, as we’ll see in my next post. You’re getting ahead of me
here. I agree that in E-g-y-p-t-i-a-n hieroglyphs, pA ra would never, for
heaven’s sake, be represented by [pr].
That’s for sure! But just as
surely, the two H-e-b-r-e-w letters peh/P – resh/R can represent
either or both of the following two Egyptian words or phrases: pA ra or pr. It’s a punster’s paradise! But you’re way ahead of me, because I
have not even presented PR(H as praA yet; that’s for my next
post. 8.
You wrote: “It's sensible
for Hebrews to refer to the king of The last element is aH [with an emphatic
Egyptian H]. There is no ah [with a
regular Egyptian h] in Egyptian.
You know pA ra in Egyptian.
pA ra aH works beautifully in Egyptian to describe Pharaoh during the
Amarna era: “ 9.
In response to my statement that “But we’ve still got two more intended
levels of meaning to go in analyzing P R (H”, you wrote: “I can't
wait.” Me neither. Fire up for some real
excitement! Jim
Stinehart |
-
Re: [b-hebrew] P R (H/"Pharaoh"" Three Meanings,
JimStinehart, 03/15/2013
-
Re: [b-hebrew] P R (H/"Pharaoh"" Three Meanings,
Will Parsons, 03/16/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] P R (H/"Pharaoh"" Three Meanings, jimstinehart, 03/16/2013
- <Possible follow-up(s)>
-
Re: [b-hebrew] P R (H/"Pharaoh"" Three Meanings,
JimStinehart, 03/15/2013
-
Re: [b-hebrew] P R (H/"Pharaoh"" Three Meanings,
Will Parsons, 03/16/2013
-
Re: [b-hebrew] P R (H/"Pharaoh"" Three Meanings,
jimstinehart, 03/16/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] P R (H/"Pharaoh"" Three Meanings, Will Parsons, 03/16/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] P R (H/"Pharaoh"" Three Meanings, jimstinehart, 03/16/2013
-
Re: [b-hebrew] P R (H/"Pharaoh"" Three Meanings,
jimstinehart, 03/16/2013
-
Re: [b-hebrew] P R (H/"Pharaoh"" Three Meanings,
Will Parsons, 03/16/2013
-
Re: [b-hebrew] P R (H/"Pharaoh"" Three Meanings,
JimStinehart, 03/18/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] P R (H/"Pharaoh"" Three Meanings, Antonio Garcia, 03/18/2013
- Re: [b-hebrew] P R (H/"Pharaoh"" Three Meanings, Will Parsons, 03/19/2013
-
Re: [b-hebrew] P R (H/"Pharaoh"" Three Meanings,
Will Parsons, 03/16/2013
Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.