Biblical Hebrew Forum

[K Randolph <kwrandolph AT gmail.com>]

Nir:

Just a little quibble: in Biblical Hebrew בדיל BDYL refers to slag or
dross, removed from metals during the refining process. It’s used once in
Isaiah, 1:25, and three times in Ezekiel, 22:18, 20 and 27:12.

נחשת NX$T refers to copper and its alloys, especially where copper is the
main material of the alloy such as brass and bronze.

Karl W. Randolph.

On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 9:34 AM, Nir cohen - Prof. Mat. 
<nir AT ccet.ufrn.br>wrote:

> rolf,
>
> i agree with ishnian that MBDYL should be translated as SEPARATE and not
> MADE OF BRASS. this is also the usual translation.
>
> firstly, at that point in the creation story, matter appears to
> have been divisible into water and solids, and so "brass" was
> still inexistent as a separate element.
>
> secondly, as the whole RAQIA is, by itself, a metaphore, an artifact
> marking
> separation, it is not expected that the text go into its exact composition.
> moreover, as ishnian asks, why BDYL?
>
> thirdly, grammar. the expression YHY MBDYL BYN MYM LMYM (would be
> separating
> between water and water) can hardly be separated cohesively into two
> parts (will be made of brass - between waters and waters: the second
> part in fact still made no sense since water was still indivisible!).
>
> the alternative "separate" fits much better to the text as it is
> followed by the preposition BYN (separate BETWEEN).
>
> fourth, the thematic. the whole creation of RQYA was made with separation
> in mind.
> ----------
>
> quite on the contrary, the word BDYL (brass), which (technologically
> speaking) may not be as old as genesis, probably derives indeed from
> "separate", hinting at the way the alloy was produced. even the
> identity of BDYL as brass is unclear.
>
> nir cohen
>
> >>>De: "Ishnian" <ishinan AT comcast.net>
> Para: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Data: Sat, 1 Sep 2012 17:09:11 -0500
> Assunto: [b-hebrew] When the heavens become brass...
>
>
> >>>ROLF wrote:
> ......I would argue about RQY( in Genesis 1:6-8.  When it is said that the
> heavens will become brass, the one thing (the sky) is called like the other
> one (brass,). Thus, "brass" is a metaphor.
>
>
> >>>ISHINAN:
> If the metaphorical language of the Scripture means transporting a meaning
> from one word  [here brass *(1) which is an alloy of copper and zinc] to
> another [in this case, the heaven(s)]. My question to you, is why,  in your
> opinion, it is such a terrible situation if the heavens become brass?. What
> does this particular metaphor try to convey in the light of Deuteronomy
> 8:8-9
>  *(2) where 'brass'  is used in a positive sense?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Ishinan Ishibashi
>
>