Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Nir cohen - Prof. Mat." <nir AT ccet.ufrn.br>]

rolf,

i agree with ishnian that MBDYL should be translated as SEPARATE and not
MADE OF BRASS. this is also the usual translation.

firstly, at that point in the creation story, matter appears to 
have been divisible into water and solids, and so "brass" was 
still inexistent as a separate element.

secondly, as the whole RAQIA is, by itself, a metaphore, an artifact marking
separation, it is not expected that the text go into its exact composition.
moreover, as ishnian asks, why BDYL?

thirdly, grammar. the expression YHY MBDYL BYN MYM LMYM (would be separating
between water and water) can hardly be separated cohesively into two 
parts (will be made of brass - between waters and waters: the second 
part in fact still made no sense since water was still indivisible!). 

the alternative "separate" fits much better to the text as it is 
followed by the preposition BYN (separate BETWEEN).

fourth, the thematic. the whole creation of RQYA was made with separation in 
mind.
----------

quite on the contrary, the word BDYL (brass), which (technologically
speaking) may not be as old as genesis, probably derives indeed from
"separate", hinting at the way the alloy was produced. even the 
identity of BDYL as brass is unclear.

nir cohen
 
>>>De: "Ishnian" <ishinan AT comcast.net>
Para: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Data: Sat, 1 Sep 2012 17:09:11 -0500
Assunto: [b-hebrew] When the heavens become brass...


>>>ROLF wrote:
......I would argue about RQY( in Genesis 1:6-8.  When it is said that the
heavens will become brass, the one thing (the sky) is called like the other
one (brass,). Thus, "brass" is a metaphor.


>>>ISHINAN:
If the metaphorical language of the Scripture means transporting a meaning
from one word  [here brass *(1) which is an alloy of copper and zinc] to
another [in this case, the heaven(s)]. My question to you, is why,  in your
opinion, it is such a terrible situation if the heavens become brass?. What
does this particular metaphor try to convey in the light of Deuteronomy 8:8-9
 *(2) where 'brass'  is used in a positive sense?

Best regards,

Ishinan Ishibashi