Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Uri Hurwitz <uhurwitz AT yahoo.com>]

      Isaaxc Fried wrote:>>1. Of course it is rashi; roshi is 'my head'.
>>   But compare 'Yomi' to 'daily' or 'my head',- same pronounciation,and the 
>>vowel has notchanged from 'Yom'. >> 2. There is no such thing as a qamatz 
>>qatan or qamatz gadol>> --    The Masoretes (= vocalizers, Naqdanim) 
>>distinguishedbetween long and short vowels, following established Semitic 
>>practice, and noticed other phonetic features which disappeared in the 
>>modern language. We've been through this before.  
  
     >>---the NIKUD was not given to Moses on mount Sinai
>>       No, but people talked with each other even in his time.     Uri 
>> Hurwitz >>Isaac Fried, Boston University
>>


>From if AT math.bu.edu  Sun Jan 22 18:11:43 2012
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From: Isaac Fried <if AT math.bu.edu>
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 17:51:13 -0500
To: Uri Hurwitz <uhurwitz AT yahoo.com>
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Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Modern Pronounciation - not related to the BH list
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1. We don't know who the NAKDANIYM were and what they exactly meant  
by by their different NIKUD signs. "long" and "short" vowels, as well  
as "Semitic practices" belong in my opinion in the department of  
legends and dreams. There is no evidence that different NIKUD  
markings were designed for different sounds, or that the same marking  
could indicate different sounds.
What Wikipedia says about the qamatz is in my opinion no more than  
the pipe dreams of some "eminent Semitists".

2. As we (I and my friends) speak today we make no distinction  
between the qamatz, the patax and the xataphim, and the Hebrew  
language functions perfectly well this way. But, sometimes we prefer  
to override the NIKUD for the sake of clarity, for instance, we say  
XOD$YI חָדְשִי for 'montly' in order to bring it closer to XODE 
$, 'month', and to take it further away from XADA$, 'new'. We say  
NOHALEI × Ö¸×”Ö³×œÖµ×™ (but not NOHOLEI as the "experts" would like us  
to say) to bring it closer to NOHAL, 'procedure'. On the other hand,  
we say CAHARAYIM and CAHALAH צָהֳלָה and not COHOLAH as the  
"experts" would like us to say. And all this with to reference to  
these sons of the wind, the qamatz qatan and qamatz gadol.

3. If someone prefers to say COHOLAH, at the risk of sounding funny,  
it is his choice to make.

4. Concerning CARPAT, 'France', that some yokels pronounce CORPAT  
(with the stress on the O), I see on the internet this goofy  
"explanation" by a notorious "expert":

אז אם יש הברה סגורה לא מוטעמת ×©×ž× ×•×§×“×ª  
בקמץ - רוב הסיכויים שזה קמץ קטן.

איך יודעים שב-"צרפת" ההברה פתוחה? הרי  
לפי איך ×©×× ×—× ×• מבטאים, ה-ר' סוגרת את  
ההברה.

אילו הייתה ההברה סגורה, ×”×™×™× ×• צריכים  
לבטא צרפּת עם דגש ב-פ'. לפי ה-פ' הלא  
דגושה, אפשר לדעת שהשווא ב-ר' הוא שווא  
× ×¢, ולכן הוא פותח את ההברה הבאה.

5. The schwa is another story.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

On Jan 22, 2012, at 1:03 PM, Uri Hurwitz wrote:

>       Isaaxc Fried wrote:>>1. Of course it is rashi; roshi is 'my  
> head'.
>>>    But compare 'Yomi' to 'daily' or 'my head',- same  
>>> pronounciation,and the vowel has notchanged from 'Yom'. >> 2.  
>>> There is no such thing as a qamatz qatan or qamatz gadol>> --     
>>> The Masoretes (= vocalizers, Naqdanim) distinguishedbetween long  
>>> and short vowels, following established Semitic practice, and  
>>> noticed other phonetic features which disappeared in the modern  
>>> language. We've been through this before.
>
>>> ---the NIKUD was not given to Moses on mount Sinai
>>>       No, but people talked with each other even in his time.      
>>> Uri Hurwitz >>Isaac Fried, Boston University
>>>
>
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