Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Will Parsons <wbparsons AT alum.mit.edu>]

Hi Randall,

On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 09:31:11 +0300, Randall Buth <randallbuth AT gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 4:52 AM, Will Parsons <wbparsons AT alum.mit.edu> wrote:
>> On Tue, 4 Oct 2011 23:00:17 +0300, Randall Buth <randallbuth AT gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 10:07 PM, <JimStinehart AT aol.com> wrote:
>> >> Randall Buth:****
>> >> You wrote: “[G]oats are feminine. Check out עזים. Gen 15.9.  In this
>> >> case יעל is a female ya`el.”
>> Is this the right reference?
> Yes, in my Bible עז משלשת See Gen 30.35 עזים נקדות too.

OK - I will accept that עז/`ez is feminine.

>> > My point is that 'goats' have a masculine looking form and a masculine
>> > looking plural, yet they are "feminine".

>> If יעל/ya`el has a masculine looking form and a masculine looking plural,
>> it seems that the only reason for not thinking it masculine would be to
>> find instances where it is associated with a feminine adjective or verb
>> form.  Do we have that?  Finding a semantically similar word עז/`ez used as
>> a feminine (I assume it *is* used as a feminine - I didn't see it in
>> Gen. 15.9 and in Gen. 27.9 it is used with a masculine adjective

no, it is not. the adjective goes with the gdyim

Hmm.  I think it's ambiguous, but I would agree that the adjective *could* go
with גדיי/gedhaye rather than עזים/`izzim.

>> ) is suggestive, but I think

> I agree, actually.But I see the name Ya`el as suggesting either
> a. a dialect where a common noun ya`el is used,

Quite possibly.

> b.analogical formation based on עז

Also possible.

> c. a masculine noun used as a feminine name

Less likely, but still we can compare with the name "Robin", which in the US
is a fairly common feminine name.  The reason why it should be so is somewhat
obscure, but I think it is probably connected with the perception that the
primary meaning of "robin" is a type of bird, and that there's something
inherently feminine about birds in general.  So even though the North American
bird "robin" derives its name from the quite different English bird "robin"
(both the N. American and English birds being noted for the red breast of the
*male* of the species), and the latter gets its name from the nickname "Robin"
for "Robert" - a name that should logically be masculine has (in the US
anyway) has become feminine.

>> not enough to prove the gender of ya`el.

>> So there really isn't any problem in applying ya`el to a girl. the ya`el is
>> a goat. A majestic goat to be sure.  As for the masculinity of ya`el,
>> is/was there any concord with the other occurrences in the Bible to show
>> that ya`el was always 'masculine-only'?

>> If there's no proof from concord, it might be reasonable to consider the
>> word applicable to both sexes, although the fact that a specifically
>> feminine form יעלה/ya`ala exists would seem to make that a more natural
>> choice for a woman's name.

> In things historical, natural and reasonable get overturned by what actual
> happens. In those cases we try to explain simply and directly. That is what
> my 'goat' explanation is. an explanation, not a proof.

Fair enough.

-- 
Will Parsons