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  • From: Randall Buth <randallbuth AT gmail.com>
  • To: Hebrew <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: [b-hebrew] qatal and qotel
  • Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 08:52:44 -0700

> [KR] In this example, the people are looking for the who in the whodunnit,
> which
would call for the participle ...>

This starting point is wrong.
Asking a question of "who" does not mean that an actor or an adjective
(aka. participle)
or a "noun" must follow.
See for example Gen 3:11
‏וַיֹּ֕אמֶר
מִ֚י הִגִּ֣יד לְךָ֔ כִּ֥י עֵירֹ֖ם אָ֑תָּה

We can follow the question of Gen 3 and ask you,
'who told you that it has to be a participle following 'mi'?
Yes, the focus is on an actor, 'who',
but the reference is on a past event. The natural BH form for this
is qatal. That is BH. Whatever the verbs do in other contexts is irrelevant.

[interesting examples should you wish, (there are many more): Gen 21.26
‏וַיֹּ֣אמֶר אֲבִימֶ֔לֶךְ
לֹ֣א יָדַ֔עְתִּי מִ֥י עָשָׂ֖ה אֶת־הַדָּבָ֣ר הַזֶּ֑ה
וְגַם־אַתָּ֞ה לֹא־הִגַּ֣דְתָּ לִּ֗י
וְגַ֧ם אָנֹכִ֛י לֹ֥א שָׁמַ֖עְתִּי בִּלְתִּ֥י הַיּֽוֹם

Ex 4.ll (with a yiqtol)
‏וַיֹּ֨אמֶר יְהוָ֜ה אֵלָ֗יו
מִ֣י שָׂ֣ם פֶּה֮ לָֽאָדָם֒
א֚וֹ מִֽי־יָשׂ֣וּם אִלֵּ֔ם א֣וֹ חֵרֵ֔שׁ א֥וֹ פִקֵּ֖חַ א֣וֹ עִוֵּ֑ר
הֲלֹ֥א אָנֹכִ֖י יְהוָֽה

Dt 21.1 mi hikkahu, Ju 18.3 mi heviaxa, 2Sam 11.21 mi hikka et Avimelex, etc.]


> [KR] Based on another discussion recently, the Masoretes may have
> mispointed this
verse based on a faulty view of Biblical Hebrew grammar: in other words,
they pointed it based on grammar imported from another language, rather than
on the grammar that the original writer intended.>

Your point is not logical:
you raised a point "they may have ...". So far so good.
One can always speculate about what might possibly occur.
But then you conclude "they pointed it ..." without a shred of evidence and
against the context as pointed out in my post.

It appears that the 'foreign grammar' is none other than your own post.

So I repeat my post:

[RB] The verb עשה is best as qatal. It refers to a done deed, past, not to
something that Gid`on is always doing or in the process of doing.
You may be confusing the effect of the word mi 'who?'. The question word
does ask "who" did it. But the verb refers back to the previous night's
events. They were not yet looking for a serial iconoclast.

See a similar point made in a following post by Christoph Georg.
This is BH. This is what needs to inform readers.

PS: Jud 6:29 may also help you read the ShiloaH inscription. Jud 6:29 is in

a context of cutting, just like ShiloaH, and has the idiom 'a man, his
friend'
to refer to 'each other' (not to cutting tools).

braxot
Yochanan
Randall Buth, PhD
www.biblicallanguagecenter.com
Biblical Language Center
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