Biblical Hebrew Forum

[JimStinehart AT aol.com]

Nir Cohen:
 
1.  You wrote:  “i was equating "ish ohalim" to "ish sadeh".”
 
That does not make sense.  Genesis 25: 27 is contrasting Esau and Jacob, 
not equating them.
 
2.  You wrote:  “both descriptions of jacob as a shephard and as a leader 
are anachronistic.  we were discussing the case of the soup bowl (chapter 
25), which occurred may years before jacob became a shephard, and many more 
(14, to be exact) years before he became a leader. in chapter 25 he was just 
a 
teenager, and so was esau.”
 
That is not consistent with what the Biblical text says.
 
Esau and Jacob are old enough in chapter 25 of Genesis for Esau to be a 
proficient hunter.  Based on what the text says and numerical symbolism, they 
are probably age 15.  Jacob does not do hunting, but rather concerns himself 
with matters of critical importance to the community of which Isaac [not 
Jacob] is the leader, in particular the all-important flock of sheep and 
goats. 
 Jacob at age 15 is an accomplished shepherd.  There is nothing at all 
unusual about that.  “Statuesque” Rachel is probably age 13 when she is said 
to 
be a shepherdess.  Genesis 29: 9
 
Jacob does not leave home until 12 years later, at age 27, in chapter 27 of 
Genesis.  At age 27 Jacob is anointed as the future leader of the next 
generation of early monotheists, but Jacob is the heir-apparent for a long 
period of time, not the governing Patriarch of Canaan.  In fact, Jacob 
promptly 
leaves Canaan at that point, and over the course of the next 20 years in 
Naharim in eastern Syria, Jacob gradually comes to have a large family, many 
servants, and a large flock of sheep and goats [Genesis 30: 43], and as such 
Jacob gradually becomes a fine leader.  But that happens years after chapter 
25 of Genesis.
 
The twins are probably age 15 at the time of “the case of the soup bowl 
(chapter 25)”, at which point Esau is indeed an accomplished hunter, and 
Jacob 
is indeed an accomplished shepherd.  There is nothing “anachronistic” about 
any of this.  The text says what it says, and means what it says.
 
3.  You wrote:  “from the later chapters, you can see that as jacob became 
a leader of his community, esau also became leader of his respective 
community. but in your version, isaac is a leader and esau is the bad guy.”
 
No.  Neither Jacob nor Esau is a leader in chapter 25 of Genesis;  they are 
15-year-old teenagers.  Both Jacob and Esau later become leaders of their 
respective communities (or family clans).  I did not say that Esau is “the 
bad guy”.  Rather, the issue I am raising is precisely the question of what 
exactly it was about Esau’s hunting that shows Esau in an unfavorable light 
compared to Jacob.  Jacob, not Esau, becomes Patriarch #3, and rightly so.
 
4.  You wrote:  “i am glad i was helpful in any way... i am aware that my 
point of view may be contradicting many of the scholars.”
 
I will send in a separate post concerning the scholarly view of Genesis 25: 
27.  We will see that what the scholars say about Genesis 25: 27 is 
inconsistent with what the Biblical text says about Esau and Jacob.
 
If we can understand Genesis 25: 27, we can understand the bulk of the 
Patriarchal narratives.
 
Jim Stinehart
Evanston, Illinois