Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Nir cohen - Prof. Mat." <nir AT ccet.ufrn.br>]

david

i still owe you an answer. your "sh/ulah" for  BH palm/ arch of foot is new 
to me. 
(somewhat similar to IE sole)? i hope your finding is not based "sole"-ly on 
dr. sch'oll's catalogue...

where is this BH word found?

meanwhile, a picture  is worth a hundred words:

http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/mammals/red-fox/

http://ny-image0.etsy.com/il_fullxfull.81010712.jpg

http://www.beartrackersden.com/beartracker/jmusefox2.jpg

http://www.nature-pictures.org/images/s.gif

http://us.123rf.com/168nwm/selfhome/selfhome1007/selfhome100700003.jpg

http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/resources/corel_cd/gray_fox.jpg/medium.jpg

regards
nir cohen

------------------

On Wed, 5 Jan 2011 23:24:53 -0800 (PST), David Kolinsky wrote
>

 Nir,
> 
> You may very well be correct that Samson chose the fox (ShW\L) for its 
> similarity to the Arabic word meaning torch (Sh\L).  However, I do not 
> think they are etymologically connected in the way that you suggest "that 
> there is some similarity between the shape of the torch fire and the fox 
> tail, giving an ancient common semitic word,"  Rather I believe the 
> etymological connection is as follows:
> 
> both words are expansions of the word Sh\(H) (ultimately derived from ShW\)
> 
> In Arabic = spread, diffuse, scatter, disperse > radiate, beam > flash up 
>             with the word for torch (also set ablaze, ignite, kindle etc) 
> coming from "flash up"
> 
> In Hebrew = to make smooth, daub, spreadover
>              with fox (Shu\L), path (MSh\oL), palm / arch of foot (Sh\uLh) 
> all meaning smooth
> 
> Considering the th --> sh transformation, I suggest that the original 
> consonant was Sh, some words remained Sh and others transformed from Sh > 
> Th.  
> 
> As to which came first, I would venture a guess and say that if there was a 
> Hebrew form of Sh\ and Sh\L meaning flash up, set ablaze and torch simply 
> unattested in our limited Hebrew source material then it is impossible to 
> say which came first.  If however no such forms exist in Hebrew and never 
> have, then fox came first and was present in the shared protosemitic 
> language.  When the different dialects separated later becoming separate 
> languages fox was already present in both. However in this scenario Sh\ and 
> Sh\L meaning flash up, set ablaze and torch developed in Arabic after 
> Hebrew had alreadydistinquished itself.
> 
> Thanks for your time,
> David Kolinsky
> Monterey CA
> Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 21:36:25 -0300
> From: "Nir cohen - Prof. Mat." <nir AT ccet.ufrn.br>
> To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: [b-hebrew] a tale of three languages: a case study
> Message-ID: <20110106002846.M44812 AT ccet.ufrn.br>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
> 
> >>or to put it another way; what was the language of the gov't; of the >>
> priests; of the aristocracy; of the peasants on the street; of the middle >>
> class; .... of lord& master to the servant in the home? 
> 
> fred would give a kingdom (which?) to find out in what language(s) samson
> talked with delilah and bil'am with his mule. here i give just one case 
> study.
> 
> samson's story is really about semitic puns, mostly easy ones (was he 
> teaching
> the philistines basic applied semitic lessons? no, because 
> delilah's name is already semitic!). 
> 
> but one of the puns i only uncovered reading my arabic dictionary: the story
> of the torched foxes. the question is: why did samson choose foxes and not,
> say, wolves for his torches? 
> 
> clearly, because of their tails!!!
> 
> it happens that torch in arabic is sha'le and fox in hebrew is shu'al. 
> 
> then, which etymology came first for the root "$(L": torch or wolf? 
> 
> a plausible answer is that there is some similarity between the shape of the
> torch fire and the fox tail, giving an ancient common semitic word, on which
> samson created his jem. 
> 
> interestingly, the arabic word for fox is th(lb, which maybe is more 
> ancient,
> or maybe just closer to aramaic, considering the th --> sh transformation.
> conclusion: fox camebefore fire? 
> 
> in a very long shot, in indo-european can "fox" and "foco/fogo", "zorro" and
> "zoroaster" be related in a similar way ? i wouldnt bet fred's kingdom on 
> it. 
> 
> nir cohen     
>

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