Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Kevin Riley <klriley AT alphalink.com.au>]

You definitely need 'him', 'her', 'them'.  You cannot have 'of he', etc, 
in English.  The subject form of a pronoun can never follow a 
preposition.  Most times English speakers would change '(in) the 
fact/act of him to speak' to '(in) the fact/act of his speaking'.  I am 
sure there is complicated English grammar involved, but this is a Hebrew 
list, and it's Sabbath, which gives me two good reasons not to think 
about it :)

Kevin Riley

On 18/12/2010 4:44 PM, Pere Porta wrote:
> Nir,
> thank you for your kind explanation.
> But I'd prefer a more direct and precise answer.
> My question is really not on the Hebrew but on the English as this is
> intended to, so to say, literally translate the Hebrew:
>
> ---In Gn 37:4 we have DABRWO, to speak him/it. No problem with the English
> because the suffix -WO plays the part of the object and not of the subject.
>
> ---But in Ex 34:29 we have B'DABRWO. Putting aside preposition B, we have
> the same word.
>
> Now, at literally translating it to the English, which is the right form:
>
> 1. (in) the fact/act of HE to speak
> 2. (in) the fact/act of HIM to speak?
>
> Remark: here in Ex 34:29 the suffix WO plays the part of the subject (and
> not the part of the object as it was the case in Gn 37:4).
>
> This is my question.
> Remark that I'm asking on the English rather than on the Hebrew (I'm not a
> native english-speaking person...)
>
> Pere Porta
> (Barcelona, Catalonia, Spain)
> 2010/12/17 Nir cohen - Prof. Mat.<nir AT ccet.ufrn.br>
>
> > pere,
> >
> > SHEM HAPOAL is a noun which indicates both root and binyan. when used in
> > SMIXUT with a suffix, it always indicates NOSE HAPOAL, not NESU
> > HAPOAL. (in your words, "he" and not "him"). however, whether it
> > would be active or passive depends on the binyan. compare LIDTAH and
> > HIVALDAH (give birth vs. be born). also, gender (m/f), guf (1/2/3)
> > and number (s/p) should agree with the NOSE HAPOAL.
> >
> > as to NESU HAPOAL, it cannot enter as a suffix, and has to appear in
> > separate:
> > LIDTA OTO, LEDET OTO. this is not so in non-noun verb forms, eg HA'ALUHU,
> > HE'ELUHU, YA'ALUHU, where we have two suffixes.
> >
> > the present tense behaves like a noun rather than a verb. for example, it
> > does
> > not agree with guf, only with gender and number. so it also does not
> > admit a NESU HAPOAL. YOLEDET OTO.
> >
> > YOLADETO seems a counter example, but as YOLEDET here does not describe
> > an action but a person, we do not have POAL, hence NOSE/NESU HAPOAL, to
> > begin
> > with, and so there is no problem.
> >
> > nir cohen
> >
> > > Hi, list.
> > > When trying to literally translate infinitives with personal suffix (the
> > > suffix playing the part of the subject of the infinitive) such as:
> > > 1. (A&OTO -------- Jr 30:24
> > > 2. (ALOTO -------- Is 11:16
> > > 3. LIDTAH ---------- Gn 38:27
> > > 4. RIDTAH --------- Dt 20:20
> > > and so on...
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