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Subject: Biblical Hebrew Forum
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- From: Uri Hurwitz <uhurwitz AT yahoo.com>
- To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
- Subject: [b-hebrew] dagesh
- Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 16:23:19 -0700 (PDT)
1. It is not clear to me who these "Masoretes" are.
Do you mean the
NAKDANIYM?
-- yes (UH)
2. I would have expected a dagesh in the T of BITI (בתי),
this T coming after a letter marked by a Xirek, no
t followed by a Yod. I tend to think that the dagesh
in the T preceded the nikud by possibly a thousand years,
serving as an early reading clue or prop in the
absence of vowels.
3. The plural, or any other inflected form, may have
come from an earlier obsolete form of the singular.
-- The simple answer is that the Hebrew, Phoenician,
Ammonite "BAT" originated from the earlier "BNT".
The Nun drupped out completely in the singular,
but left a pronpunciation-trace in declensions,
which existed still in the the Masoretes time. They
heard it, and marked it with a dagesh.
In the plural of original Nun remained, even in
declensions.
Compare with P"N verbs in imperfect Qal.
One does not need to know Arabic to check this.
The word 'bint' (daughter in Arabic) entered English
usage during their colonial experiences. It can be
found in every large English dictionay
published in the UK. (UH)
4. I know they are irrelevant. I think we should
refrain from relying
on a hypothetically "reconstructed" language like "Akkadian",
for which we are unable to verify for ourselves any
claim made about it.
-- The mystery deepens: again one make assertions about
subjects with which one choses not to acquaint oneself.
Your position clearly implies that biblical Hebrew
had nothing in common with its sister NW Semitic dialects,
or the wider linguistic horizon where it was in usage.
Ezov Haqyr,
Uri Hurwitz Great Neck, NY
Isaac Fried, Boston University
On Nov 3, 2010, at 1:11 PM, Uri Hurwitz wrote:
>
>
>
> <4. I am still waiting to see a good "proof", within the Hebrew
> language, for an earlier existence of this spoken "gemination" (no
> Arabic, please).
>
>
> Isaac Fried, Boston University>
>
>
>
> Why don't you look at the declensions of Bat (daughter)
> with the dagesh forte in the Tav. Then ask yourself why
> the Masoretes put it there.
>
> Then take a look at the plural of this noun - Banot, and ask
> yourself where the Nun came from.
>
> And a mystery: Since you're by choice ignorant of the
> most basic Arabic, Proto-Semitic, Akkadian, Moabite, etc.,
> how can you know, one way or another , whether or not
> these are relevant to biblical Hebrew.
>
> Finally, in today's Haaretz is a brief note about the translation
> of the HB into modern Hebrew for children.
>
> http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasite/spages/1196311.html
>
> Uri Hurwitz Great Neck, NY
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
-
[b-hebrew] dagesh,
Uri Hurwitz, 11/03/2010
- Re: [b-hebrew] dagesh, Isaac Fried, 11/03/2010
- <Possible follow-up(s)>
-
[b-hebrew] dagesh,
Uri Hurwitz, 11/04/2010
- Re: [b-hebrew] dagesh, Isaac Fried, 11/04/2010
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