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  • From: Rolf Furuli <furuli AT online.no>
  • To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Emerging consensus (and paedogogy) on "Waw Consecutive" PSS
  • Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 09:32:54 +0200

Dear Randall,

I understand what you say regarding sequential tense, and I agree that the WAYYIQTOL form itself does not carry forward either time/or aspect/or mood of a previous verb.

What I did not understand, and still not do understand, are the words "continued by induction with." But in any case, you have explained what you meant by your post as a whole.


shalom Rolf
katavta
I simply do not understand what you are saying.
What in the world does it mean that "the T-A-M system of Hebrew is
continued by induction with the sequential verb structures"? And
further: "this is not the way Hebrew works"?>

It was clarifying that some people claim that a sequential tense in
Hebrew carries forward either the time/or aspect/or mood/ of a
previous verb.
But people who might claim that are fundamentally wrong.
e.g.
ha-melex halax wayyax et ha-oyyeb.
'the king went and hit the enemy.'
I would claim that wayyax carries its own TAM (perfective/past) and does
not 'induct' its tense/aspect from halax.
In speech a person could say:
ha-melex yatsa we-hikka et ha-oyyeb
'the king has gone forth and will hit the enemy'.
we-hikka does not 'induct' its tense/aspect from yatsa.

Now ironically, you agree with me that there is no 'induction' of tense
or aspect from a previous verb,
but that is because you don't accept that there are sequential 'tenses'
in BH.
(Though if I remember, you do consider that the MT has
sequential 'tenses' as an innovation to the language. We will just
have to differ on that.

I do not think that the masoretes invented anything new, as far as grammar is concerned. They did not know Hebrew grammar, and could not tamper with something they did not know. The masoretes invented accent marks and vowel points. But this was based on the recitation of the text in the synagogue. They would not dream of inventing anything new, but they carefully pointed and vocalized the text according to the recitation they heard.

When a verb had an attached WAW at the beginning, sometimes they uesed WE- and sometimes WAY-. There is no semantic distinction between verbs with attached WAW either in the Dead Sea Scrolls or in Origen's Hexapla. And I see absolutely no reason to give the WE- and WAY-elements any semantic meaning. The difference between them is a function of the resitation and stress, and the rules regarding open and closed syllables. However, in the writings of David Kimhi (12th and 13th century C.E.) the WE- and WAY-elements are given semantic meaning, to the effect that Hebrew is bportrayes as having 4 verb conjugations and not just two.

It therefore seems that after the masoretes when Hebrew grammar was developed (between the masoretes and Kimhi), the grammarians, who were influenced by the grammar of Arabic, Mishina-Hebrew, and the European languages spoken where they lived, ascribed semantic meaning to the WE- and WAY-elements, while these elements by the masoretes were pragmatic attempts to convey the resitation in the synagogue in writing.

Thus, the masoretes did not invent anything new, but because of the misunderstanding of the meaning of masoretic vocalization and pointing by later grammarians, the four-component model of Hebrew verbs was born.


I feel comfortably in the main stream of the
Hebrew language using community for the past 2000 years as
evidenced by the LXX and targumim.)
And as a scholar you would probably agree
that most Semitists view the yaqom//yehi//yashlex ȗÌÝȔÈÝȘÏÍ forms
of the verb as a remnant of a different aspect/tense than the parallel
forms yaqum//yihye//yashix ȗÂÌÝȔȔÝȘÏÈÍ, though you may or may
not agree with such a group of Semitists.

Correct.


braxot
Randall Buth




--
Randall Buth, PhD
www.biblicalulpan.org
randallbuth AT gmail.com
Biblical Language Center
Learn Easily - Progress Further - Remember for Life



Best regards,

Rolf Furuli
University of Oslo






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