Biblical Hebrew Forum

[davedonnelly1 <davedonnelly1 AT juno.com>]

So what did Clement of Alexandria actually write about "Iaoue"? [which
favors "Yahweh"]

Was Clement of Alexandria even aware that the Greek spelling "Iaoue"
existed?

The oldest extant Greek manuscript 
that preserves Clement's Stomata Book V, Chapter VI verses 34-35 
preserves "Iaou" NOT "Iaoue"



http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf02.vi.iv.v.vi.html

The link above takes you to:

Christian Classics Ethereal Library 
ANFO2. Fathers of the Second Century:
Hermas, Tatian, Athenagoras, Theophilus, and Clement of Alexandria
(Entire)

Book V, Chapter VI, verses 34-35  of Clement of Alexandria's Stromata


>>>
Again, there is the veil of the entrance into the holy of holies. 
Four pillars there are, the sign of the sacred tetrad of the ancient
covenants. 
Further, the mystic name of four letters 
which was affixed to those alone to whom the adytum was accessible, 
is called Jave, which is interpreted,
“Who is and shall be.” 
The name of God, too, among the Greeks contains four letters.
>>>

It is at least possible that this ANFO2 translation above, was translated
from a Greek Manuscript,
[i.e. written by "Migne" in the 19th century]  that preserved "Iaou" not
"Iaoue" at Stromata V, VI, 34-35

It seems at least possible that in about 1815 A.D., when Gesenius
provided the world with his proposed Hebrew punctuation of YHWH, [that
can be letter-by-letter transliterated into English as "Yahweh" ],
Gesenius may not have known that the Greek spelling "Iaoue" even 
existed, 
which appears to be why he was influenced by the Samaritan "IaBe" and not
"Iaoue" .

Peter Kirk was much involved in trying to discover the truth about this
issue before he left b-hebrew.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragrammaton#Clement.27s_Stromata

At the link above":Wikipedia, to its credit, 
lists two Greek Critical editions of the writings of Clement of
Alexandria,
[THAT WERE BOTH WRITTEN IN THE 20th CENTURY]
that present Greek evidence that there are old Greek Catenas in which the
Greek spelling "Iaoue" occurs.  

[Gerard Gertoux wrote me in a personal email, that catena's are very
fragile, and seemed to indicate that he could not gain access to viewing
one. ]

FWIW


Dave Donnelly

I felt that I had to present this information, at this time, 
because there is so much criticism of Gesenius's proposed punctuation
"Yahweh", on b-hebrew .

Hopefully this posts influences someone to further investigate whether
the Greek name "Iaoue" 
actually existed when Clement of A. wrote his Greek Stromata BookV,
Chapter VI, Verses 34-35
in about 190 A.D. 

P.S. to Garth Grenache. I hope you will spend a little time trying to
determine if two Greek Critical Editions of Clement's Greek Stromata
provide solid proof that the Greek spelling "Iaoue" actually existed in
the 2nd century A.D. 
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>From kwrandolph AT gmail.com  Thu Mar 11 13:17:22 2010
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Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:17:21 -0800
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From: K Randolph <kwrandolph AT gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] The ancient value of OU in Attic and Koine Greek
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Garth:

On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 3:56 PM, Garth Grenache
<garthgrenache AT hotmail.com>wrote:

>
> Dear Karl,
>
> Karl> What you have yet to do is to give me any indication whatsoever tha=
t
> YHWH
> was pronounced ?Yahweh? in the original Biblical Hebrew pronunciation. Fr=
om
> Hebrew sources, I conclude that the name had at least three syllables.
>
> Now you are saying that it is from Hebrew sources that you've come to
> insist on a 3-syllabic pronunciation, but previously you were saying that
> you reckon that a spelling such as IAOUE must represent a Hebrew name wit=
h
> more than 3-syllables.
>

It was from Hebrew sources before I saw the Greek from Clement that I came
to the conclusion that the name had at least three syllables. What I see
from the Greek is further evidence to back up that conclusion.

>
> I and others on this list have demonstrated that there is scholarly
> concensus that at the time of Clement's writing and for half a millenium
> beforehand, OU represented 'u' and 'w', and thus there is no need to asse=
rt
> that OUE represents more than one Hebrew syllable.
>

I call that =E2=80=9Cscholarly consensus=E2=80=9D into question and see no =
reason to back
off from that questioning. At least not yet.

>
> Garth Grenache.
>
> Karl W. Randolph.