Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Daniel Buck <bucksburg AT yahoo.com>]

Quoting Randall Buth <randallbuth AT gmail.com>:

>> So what is the origin of the root R(Y? The  Ugaritic and Akkadian evidence 
>> show that the root
> existed in the days of Solomon. What its core meaning and references were 
> in the Hebrew
> language in the 10th century B.C.E. we simply do not know. Could this root 
> or a similar one have
> been used in the sense "striving" in the 10th century? That can of course 
> not be ruled out.>

I don't know a whole lot about Ugaritic, Akkadian, or Aramaic, but I do know 
that this same root ra`y in classical Arabic has as its core meaning "to 
shepherd."  Related meanings that derive from it (many of them similar to 
those in B-hebrew) are to graze (transitive), to care for, to protect, to 
watch over, to keep, to provide for, to have regard for, to have custody of, 
to sponsor, to be attentive to, to take into consideration.

What's interesting regarding B-Hebrew is the classical English  rendering of 
the predicate plural noun in Numbers 14:33, "your children shall wander [mg: 
or feed] in the wilderness forty years." (Geneva note: The word signifies to 
be shepherds, or to wander like shepherds to and fro.)  This reading, 
retained in several of the modern versions, is the only time it is so 
translated, the implication being that as shepherds in the desert they would 
have to lead a nomadic existence until God let them enter the fertile land of 
Canaan (as shepherds in Goshen they had stayed in the lush pastures of the 
Nile delta). There would always be manna to sustain them in the desert, but 
their flocks and herds would repeatedly require a move to fresh pasture at 
some new oasis.

Now, in Ecclesiates, the words re`uwth and ra`yown seem to be used in the 
context of "chasing after the wind" (NIV). I can definitely see a connection 
here, of being a metaphysical wanderer, always seeking some new source of 
existential satisfaction but quickly exhausting it and going on back on the 
search for more.

Daniel Buck



>From kwonbbl AT gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 21:41:39 2009
Return-Path: <kwonbbl AT gmail.com>
X-Original-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Delivered-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Received: by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix, from userid 3002)
        id 48F774C00F; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 21:41:39 -0400 (EDT)
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on malecky
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=disabled
        version=3.2.3
Received: from mail-qy0-f179.google.com (mail-qy0-f179.google.com
        [209.85.221.179])
        by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80C814C00D
        for <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 21:41:38 -0400 
(EDT)
Received: by qyk9 with SMTP id 9so1342810qyk.30
        for <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>; Fri, 11 Sep 2009 18:41:38 -0700 
(PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.229.33.12 with SMTP id f12mr842844qcd.6.1252719698133; Fri, 11
        Sep 2009 18:41:38 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <20090911093527.x8w11m3tcc4ckkok AT www.sms.ed.ac.uk>
References: <380-220099410139653 AT M2W008.mail2web.com>
        <20090910191249.mriikyqosg0gssw8 AT www.sms.ed.ac.uk>
        <002801ca325c$8ad22b90$0201010a@homeiavnpau67c>
        <4AA9767C.1020309 AT earthlink.net>
        <01b401ca32a2$02381100$0201010a@homeiavnpau67c>
        <20090911093527.x8w11m3tcc4ckkok AT www.sms.ed.ac.uk>
From: Oun Kwon <kwonbbl AT gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 21:41:18 -0400
Message-ID: <5f1984b20909111841t23768d55w5a353892beb98ce5 AT mail.gmail.com>
To: James Read <J.Read-2 AT sms.ed.ac.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Biblical Hebrew
X-BeenThere: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Biblical Hebrew Forum <b-hebrew.lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
        <mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/b-hebrew>
List-Post: <mailto:b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Help: <mailto:sympa AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=HELP>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
        <mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 01:41:39 -0000

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 4:35 AM, James Read <J.Read-2 AT sms.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> I can see your reasoning here Doug but there are many complications it 
> poses:
>
> Firstly, you assume nobody to be familiar with the name of YHWH in
> that time. There are lots of indications that this is not correct.
> Older manuscripts of the LXX still have YHWH in hebrew characters were
> newer versions have KS or kyrios in Greek script. A lot of reforms and
> standardisations happened in Constantines day and a lot of MSS were
> lost in and as a result of this period.
>
> I won't go into the second point because I'll be going too far out of
> the boudaries of b-hebrew discussion. Write to me off list if you wish.
>
<clipped>
>
> James Christian
>

I'm not sure how exact the boundaries are. Be that it may, I did learn
from Doug-Harold exchange. It would certainly give a seed for  further
study and contemplation, etc.

Yes, many complications it poses. However, it ALL depends on how
others respond and answer the question Doug asked straight.

If I may put something about 'name' from a lay: In the expression
'saved in the name', the 'name' does not refer to a name that which
can be spelled or pronounced or invoked, or etymologized, but, as
Harold said, it refers to what the name stands for.   [This goes for
also those occurrences in N.T.]

If I may go just one ounce more; 'ehyeh in Exo 3:14 may give some
confusion by traditional translations, because, as I understand, the
first one is copulative while the second is existential verb 'be'.
Speaking of Greek expression EGW EIMI may not be superimposed on the
Hebrew precisely, because the latter is 'I'm', while the former is 'I
(emphatic) am'. And the second one is hO WN. (Cf. LXX EGW EIMI hO WN.)

Please correct me, if any.

Oun Kwon.