Biblical Hebrew Forum

[K Randolph <kwrandolph AT gmail.com>]

Randall:

I understand your desire to recognize what a person would have said
were he a Biblical era Hebrew and how he would have grammaticalized a
simple, declarative statement concerning an ongoing, present action.

I think you are going about the question somewhat backwards: I start
with what patterns do we actually find in Tanakh? Is there a pattern
that indicates a grammaticalization of tense? Or is that a
grammaticalization of some other concept?

It is true that I would not have used Deuteronomy 20:19–20 as a
counter example for the reasons you listed.

(To throw out an idea: is it possible that the Qatal refers to a
fixed, firm idea, the Yiqtol to a less certain understanding such as a
subjunctive or optative use (Wayyiqtol referring back to a previous,
fixed point) while the participle is a nominalization of the action
itself or in connecting the action to an individual or object? Would
this understanding not explain the relative frequencies of these forms
in terms of their tenses?)

In a question there can be some uncertainty, e.g. Genesis 37:15 the
question could be translated as “Are you looking for something?” Hence
your exclusion of questions makes sense.

Even if one can rule out the Yiktol as the form one would expect for a
simple, declarative statement used in conversations concerning
ongoing, present actions, does that make the participle the default
form to be used? I disagree with your methodology, hence your
conclusion. Further, my disagreement is backed up by actual examples
in conversation of a participle used in a future reference (were I to
make a systematic search of Tanakh, would I find more?) and Qatals
used to describe present, ongoing actions.

Karl W. Randolph.

On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 11:03 PM, Randall Buth<randallbuth AT gmail.com> wrote:
> vayyixtov Rolf

> …
> We need to define and restrict that situation so that we
> choose the structure that Yermiyahu would have chosen.
> We do this to the best of our ability, and are happy to be
> shown otherwise. That is why we need to ask for a yiqtol
> that is a) not a question, b) not in poetry,
> c) not a habitual/omnitemporal/potential (negation is
> a complex semantic entity that is not a place to start).
>
> blessings
> Randall Buth
>
>
> --
> Randall Buth, PhD
> www.biblicalulpan.org
> randallbuth AT gmail.com
> Biblical Language Center
> Learn Easily - Progress Further - Remember for Life