Biblical Hebrew Forum

["John M. Linebarger" <jmlineb AT comcast.net>]

I'd like to add my voice to the chorus contemplating the creation of a new 
list.  IMHO, b-hebrew has drifted from its original intent.  It has now 
largely become the "Use and misuse semitic languages to argue about Biblical 
history" list instead of the "Ask questions about Biblical Hebrew language 
and syntax" list.  B-greek is a wonderful example of a list that has 
maintained its original focus on Biblical Greek language and syntax, largely 
due to the firm but benign dictatorship of its moderator, Carl Conrad.

So let me challenge the moderators.  Are you willing to exercise some 
discipline and return to the original conception of the list?  Or should some 
of us simply form a new list (called "Reformed B-Hebrew" or 
"B-Hebrew-Language") and switch our list memberships accordingly?

John M. Linebarger, PhD (Computer Science)
Albuquerque, NM, USA
>From JimStinehart AT aol.com  Mon May 25 16:14:56 2009
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Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Abraham's origin: MWLDT
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Karl:
 
Please pardon the typos in my prior post.  I mean to compare )RC MWLDT at=
 
Genesis 11: 28 with )RC MWLDTK at Genesis 31: 13.
 
At Genesis 11: 28, we are immediately given the city name =E2=80=9CUr=E2=
=80=9D after )RC 
MWLDT.  If MWLDT meant =E2=80=9Cbirth=E2=80=9D, it would not be =E2=80=9Cl=
and=E2=80=9D of birth, but rather 
the =E2=80=9Cplace=E2=80=9D of birth, namely the city of Ur.
 
Thus at Genesis 31: 13, if MWLDTK meant =E2=80=9Cyour birth=E2=80=9D, then=
 we would expect 
)RC MWLDTK to mean =E2=80=9Cplace=E2=80=9D of your birth, not =E2=80=9Ccou=
ntry=E2=80=9D of your birth.
 
If YHWH meant to tell Jacob at Genesis 31: 13 that Jacob should proceed to=
 
the place of Jacob's birth, then we would expect Jacob to follow that divi=
ne 
order, and head out for Beer-lahai-roi, near the Patriarchs=E2=80=99 Hebro=
n, since 
Jacob was born at Beer-lahai-roi.  Or perhaps Jacob would go to the 
Patriarchs=E2=80=99 Hebron, which is near Jacob=E2=80=99s birthplace, Beer=
-lahai-roi.
 
But No, Jacob goes nowhere near Beer-lahai-roi or the Patriarch's Hebron.=
  
Rather, Jacob goes to Shechem, which is not near either Beer-lahai-roi or=
 
the Patriarch=E2=80=99s Hebron.  Jacob doesn=E2=80=99t leave Shechem until=
 several years 
later, and only when Jacob has become fearful that Shechem=E2=80=99s neigh=
bors may kill 
Jacob and all of Jacob=E2=80=99s family.  Even then, Jacob refuses to go=
 to Hebron 
to live where his father Isaac is living!  Rather, Jacob sojourns in vario=
us 
locales in Canaan for additional years.  Jacob only finally moves to Hebro=
n 
when his father is on his deathbed.
 
Therefore, Jacob did not interpret what YHWH said at Genesis 31: 13 as 
meaning that Jacob should go to the place of Jacob=E2=80=99s birth.  Jacob=
 goes nowhere 
near the place of Jacob=E2=80=99s birth for many years.  Rather, in return=
ing from 
Harran, Jacob goes to Shechem.  Jacob understands YHWH to be saying that=
 
Jacob should go to the place where most of Jacob=E2=80=99s MWLDT are:  Can=
aan.
 
Jacob's siblings and half-siblings and their descendants (excluding Esau=
 
and his descendants), being Jacob's MWLDT, are living at various locales=
 
within Canaan.  Thus the place where Jacob=E2=80=99s MWLDT are would be Ca=
naan.  It is 
unlikely that any of Jacob=E2=80=99s MWLDT are living at Beer-lahai-roi,=
 where Jacob 
was born, since Isaac left Beer-lahai-roi so long ago.
 
Jacob did not defy YHWH.  No way.  YHWH told Jacob to go to the place wher=
e 
most of Jacob's MWLDT were, namely Canaan, and Jacob did precisely that.=
  
In fact, Jacob spends some considerable time just east of the Jordan River=
, 
at Succoth.  Perhaps some of Jacob=E2=80=99s MWLDT, not just Esau, were li=
ving just 
east of the Jordan River in central Transjordan, so that part of the 
Transjordan might also qualify as a place where Jacob=E2=80=99s MWLDT are.
 
Genesis 11: 28 and Genesis 31: 13 are so similar in form that they would=
 
seem to have the same meaning.  =E2=80=9CPlace of birth=E2=80=9D simply wi=
ll not work at 
Genesis 31: 13, as we have seen in this post (and in my prior post), since=
 Jacob 
never returns to the place of his birth.  =E2=80=9CLand of birth=E2=80=9D=
 does not work at 
Genesis 11: 28, because we are immediately given the name of a city, Ur.=
  
But in both verses, =E2=80=9Cplace where the man=E2=80=99s MWLDT/kindred=
 are at the time=E2=80=9D 
works perfectly.  Haran=E2=80=99s MWLDT/kindred are at Ur when Haran dies=
 at Ur.  Jacob
=E2=80=99s MWLDT/kindred are in Canaan when YHWH tells Jacob to leave Harr=
an and go 
to the place where most of Jacob=E2=80=99s MWLDT are.
 
*       *       *
 
Karl, let me close by quoting Prof. Mark G. Brett, at p. 50 of his book =
=E2=80=9C
Genesis=E2=80=9D.  Although Prof. Brett=E2=80=99s views differ greatly fro=
m mine, Prof. Brett 
does note the unusual and significant presence of the word MWLDT when 
dealing with Abraham=E2=80=99s relatives in Mesopotamia:
 
=E2=80=9CWhat is intriguing about [Genesis] 12.1, however, is that it devi=
ates from 
the normal kinship terminology:  rather than instructing Abram to leave =
=E2=80=98
your land, your mishpachah [=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9Ca term normally translated=
 as =E2=80=98clan=E2=80=99=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D] and 
your father=E2=80=99s house=E2=80=99, the text has another term instead of=
 mishpachah;  
moledet.  This latter word [MWLDT] is rather uncommon, but it appears agai=
n, 
significantly, in the narratives of Genesis 24 where Abraham instructs a=
 
servant to go back =E2=80=98to my land and my kin (moledet)=E2=80=99 to fi=
nd a wife for Abraham 
and Sarah=E2=80=99s son Isaac (24.4).  =E2=80=A6Using this apparently insi=
gnificant term 
moledet, the editors [i.e., the author(s) of the Patriarchal narratives]=
 have 
linked the two chapters [12 and 24]=E2=80=9D.
 
Mishpachah [clan] and am [people] always include ancestors.  By sharp 
contrast, MWLDT never includes ancestors, but rather is limited to the 
descendants of a common ancestor (while excluding the common ancestor hims=
elf).  That 
is the real significance of the notable fact that Abraham=E2=80=99s relati=
ves in 
Mesopotamia are always referred to as MWLDT, never anything else.  Abraham=
=E2=80=99s 
only ancestor who ever set foot in Mesopotamia was his father, Terakh.  
Abraham has MWLDT in Mesopotamia (Abraham=E2=80=99s brother Nahor, and Nah=
or=E2=80=99s 
descendants), but Abraham does not have ancestors, in the plural, in Mesop=
otamia.  That
=E2=80=99s because the Hebrews are indigenous to Canaan.
 
Jim Stinehart
Evanston, Illinois

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