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  • From: "Kevin Riley" <klriley AT alphalink.com.au>
  • To: "B Hebrew" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Origin of the Phillistines
  • Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 21:26:34 +1000 (AUS Eastern Standard Time)

James,

I thought I was aware of all the surviving Gaelic - Irish and Scottish -
groups, but I have not heard of any Gaelic speakers in Wales since the
middle ages. But it may be a connection (somewhat tenuous) to an analogy
with the Philistines. It is a matter of historical record that there was a
Norman invasion of Ireland in the C12th, the invaders speaking a Norman form
of French. That language disappeared rather quickly, due to the adoption of
Irish (Gaelic) as the language of the home (or castle :) ), with English
retained (often somewhat precariously) as the prestige spoken language, and
Latin for all official documents. If the Philistines also were from the
beginning a small section of the population occupying the top layer, then
there is no reason why their home language must survive beyond the first
couple of generations. We know the Normans spoke French because (apart from
the fact that the speaking of Norman-French is well attested in England
before the invasion) Norman-French words were adopted by the Irish. GarsĂșn
is still the word for 'boy' in parts of Ireland. Apart from their names and
a few words in Irish, there is very little to attest to the Normans in
Ireland being French speakers. Even royal decrees threatening severe
punishment did not stop them speaking Irish. Looking at things the other
way, there were Irish invasions of Wales and Cornwall, but you will not find
evidence of their existence in the language today. Their descendents very
quickly adopted Welsh, Cornish or English. Going back further, we have
tribes in Britain and in Ireland with what appear to be the same names, and
a known Belgic origin (if they are the same people) yet from our earliest
records they speak British or early Irish respectively.

Are you sure the Philistines that Abraham dealt with are the same
Philistines that David defeated? Or could this be another example of
Macedonians' where the name of a place remains, but the inhabitants change?

Just out of curiosity, if the Philistines were Hamitic and from Egypt, why
would they speak a Semitic language? Does this not require a language
change just as if they were Indo-European?

Kevin Riley

-------Original Message-------

From: James Read
Date: 24/05/2009 7:39:03 PM

It seems more likely that the Philistine language has always been of
Semitic origin and any traces of Indo-European loan words and
Mycenaean pottery can perhaps be better explained by the influence of
Later invaders. Indigenous peoples tend to cherish their language and
Culture and not all invasions are successful in supplanting the
Language (there are still communities in Wales that speak a Gaelic
Dialect to this day).

And so the above linguistic and archaeological observations perhaps
Best answer the question of where those who later invaded and
Influenced the philistines came from but not what the original
Language of the philistines was or where the philistines originally
Came from. The accounts in Genesis make it clear to us that the
Philistines are

a) of Hamitic origin (more precisely from Egypt)
B) spoke a Semitic language from their very conception as a nation

James Christian






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