Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Harold Holmyard <hholmyard3 AT earthlink.net>]

Doug,
> Hi again , you wrote
>  
>
> HH: What is your point about "a bride after the children appear"? In
> Hosea, the children are those living in 722 B.C. The children in Isa
> 54:5 do not necessarily precede the reconstitution of the marriage. Nor
> do they in Isa 62:5.
>  
> Doug belot replies
>  
> Harold with prophesy its about that will happen in the future , all 
> these prophecies of Israel as a bride have a set pattern , Israel is 
> rejected , punished , and then restored ,
>  
> Iin Is 54:1-7 , which is a quote Paul used for the woman , the mother 
> of us all , the Jerusalem above in Gal 4:26 , there we read of how 
> this woman who was barren and who will have more children that the 
> married woman . First we know Is 54:1 -18 is about Israel , and  who 
> she is can be detected by the fact that she is the mother of the "sons 
> of God" , thats obvious in Gal 4:26-32, again you would need to be an 
> obstructionist to ignore that , particularly as you have many other 
> passages that refer to Israel as a mother with children . Look also at 
> is 54:3 "Your decendants will inherit the nations" , now on its onw 
> that passage could mean many things , but when information that we 
> recieve in both Rom 9:24 and Gal 4:28-31 are factored in , its 
> obviously referring to the "sons of Gomer and Hosea , or God and 
> Israel" , the children of Goa 4:28-31, all these prophecies are of the 
> same event , the same Israel , the same destined "sons of God" , just 
> differnt prophest give a different "piece" of the jigsaw.
>  
> Rev 12:1 , Is 66:7-10 , Hos 1:11 , now remember the Bible makes sense 
> , these are prophecies  have been pinpointed in time by New Testament 
> writers , we know Rev 12:1 is Israel who gives birth to Jesus and then 
> more children , who as we both agree is the church, so this woman sets 
> a patern , for the other "woman" verses not to follow suit would be 
> confusion .Particulary when they have NT references as well .
>  
> Hos 1:11 is a woman who has children whom Paul sends us to read about 
> concerning the incomonging gentiles , why would Paul  send us there in 
> an atempt to explain the incoming gentiles as the sons of God , if it 
> had no connection, Hosea is Prophecy , its about the future , it is 
> meant to enlighten us all about what is going to happen, thats why 
> Paul sent us there.

HH: Right, but the original prophecy is about national Israel.
>  
> Is 54:1-7 is about Israel being forsaken , then being told not to be 
> ashamed of her youth , fits in well with all the "scandal" passages of 
> Israel , and then she is restored , after having children . Is 54:1-3 
> tells us "your descendants will inherit the nations" , thats the Rom 
> 9:24 prophesised, then she is comforted and restored , as in Hos 
> 2;2-20, its the same story. There is another point here too Harold , 
> if you look at Is 54:11, and remember this "afflicted one" is still 
> Israel , this woman role player , you always follow the pronoun , the 
> "you" and "your" nominate that we are still talking of Israel , and of 
> course this is now future tense , note the gem stones that build her 
> walls and foundations , then look at Rev 21:18-19 , an dif that dosent 
> give you a clue I'l be surprised, now as I said Is 54:1 is the same 
> woman as the Gal 4:26 the Jerusalem above , which is a city , the 
> bride , allegorically speaking who has gem stones in her walls and 
> foundations , both "woman" passages have like verses. Not a 
> coincidence my friend.
>  
> Is 62:1-5 is again prophecy , now here she is promised that God will 
> not let her go , she will be made special , this is a time when she 
> will be "no longer termed forsaken" , so its a long way off yet , she 
> certainly can never have been in that position up till now , and then 
> she will marry the Lord , for God will rejoice over her as a 
> bridegroom , and her sons will marry her , Harold this is a long way 
> of yet , well maybe a lot closer than I think , but it has not 
> happened yet .

HH: Right, it has not happened yet.
>  
> How can God and her sons marry her ???   As the body of Christ , we 
> are the Body of Christ , the Body of the Bridegroom.
>  
> Remember in Is 49:18 when Israel would return as a bride , after being 
> forsaken , then she becomes a bride , then her sons and daughters 
>  come to her , that cannot happen till the wedding, it certainly 
> cannot happen before , look at the content of the passage , v 18 is 
> the wedding , all that follows must be at  the wedding , or be after 
> the wedding, you have to realise that with prophesy its talking of the 
> future.
>  
> All the weddings are the same wedding, it would be nonsense to say 
> that some of them have happened , no Israel is restored first in all 
> these wedding passages , never to be forsaken again.
>  
> Hope your still with me Harold , I will pray that you will give this a 
> fair hearing ,

HH: You must come from a non-churched background or a background in a 
church that is non-dispensational. You have some nice observations, but 
certainly nothing you are saying is entirely new. It is all well 
understood in dispensational teaching. It is new to you, perhaps, but 
you don't have to fight me to establish it. I am well aware of it and 
come from a theological background where these are somewhat commonplace 
ideas. That's why I was just making some qualifications to help you be 
careful.

Yours,
Harold Holmyard