Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Harold Holmyard <hholmyard3 AT earthlink.net>]

Doug,
> One more push with this and I will cease this thread ,.............
>
> you wrote........
>
>
> HH: But when you see daughter of Zion, though it specifically 
> represents Jerusalem, you can usually think in more general terms of 
> the nation. The writer is often focusing on the capital while 
> intending to include the whole nation
>
> Horald by nation do you mean the people of that nation .
HH: A nation is comprised of its people. Yes, I referred to the people 
of the nation. But the precise usage depends on the writer and the 
context, since we have sometimes a distinction between the city or 
nation as a mother, and the citizens as children.
> Does Gomer represent the people of Israel ?
HH: Yes.
> Does "Zion" as the mother  represent the people of Israel in Is 66:7 
> ?.(could this be Rev 12:1-3,  woman with the male child)
HH: Zion represents Jerusalem, but Jerusalem as the capital represents 
the nation. The citizens are described as the children in Isaiah 66, 
with the city being the mother:

Isa 66:10 Be glad for Jerusalem and rejoice over her, all who love her. 
Rejoice greatly with her, all who mourn over her-- 11 so that you may 
nurse and be satisfied from her comforting breast and drink deeply and 
delight yourselves from her glorious breasts. 

HH: The woman in Rev 12:1-3 does represent Israel.
> Does the Zion Is 49:14 represent the people of Israel , or who do you 
> think was being forsaken , the people or the city ?

HH: Zion in Isa 49:14 represents Jerusalem. The city can include the 
people. But the writer can distinguish the city from its people, its 
sons, when he speaks to Zion:

Isa 49:18 Look up, and look around. They all gather together; they come 
to you. As I live"-- the LORD's declaration-- "you will wear all your 
children as jewelry, and put them on as a bride does.
> Could the "daughter of Zion" of Math 21:5 represent the people of 
> Israel .

HH: The daughter of Zion represents Jerusalem. Jerusalem, of course, 
includes its people. It is nothing without the people. But in poetic, 
figurative, prophetic language they can be separated so that the city is 
the mother, and the citizens are the children. Jesus does that in 
Matthew 23:

Matt 23:37  "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and 
stones those who are sent to it! How often have I desired to gather your 
children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you 
were not willing!
> Could those terms represent the people Israel at different times , 
> just a quick yes or no will do , thanks harold ,

HH: Yes, various terms can represent the people of Israel at different 
times. Of course, Gomer represented the people of Israel at a particular 
time. "Daughter of Zion" is an extensive term, being able to represent 
Jerusalem and Israel in different eras, depending on the context. The 
woman in Revelation 12 is a symbolic figure for the nation of Israel, 
but John also pictures her as a mother, particularly of the Lord Jesus:

Rev 12:5 But she gave birth to a Son-- a male who is going to shepherd 
all nations with an iron scepter-- and her child was caught up to God 
and to His throne.

HH: But also of others:

Rev 12:16 But the earth helped the woman: the earth opened its mouth and 
swallowed up the river that the dragon had spewed from his mouth. 17 So 
the dragon was furious with the woman and left to wage war against the 
rest of her offspring-- those who keep the commandments of God and have 
the testimony about Jesus.

HH: Since the beast was persecuting the woman, the woman probably also 
represents the people of Israel:

Rev 12:13  When the dragon saw that he had been thrown to earth, he 
persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male.

HH: So the children in Rev 12:16 could be Gentiles who keep the 
commandments of God and have the testimony about Jesus.

Yours,
Harold Holmyard






Yours,
Harold Holmyard