Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

b-hebrew - Re: [b-hebrew] barak (bless? curse?) in the Book of Job

b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Biblical Hebrew Forum

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: John Estell <oldearther AT yahoo.com>
  • To: K Randolph <kwrandolph AT gmail.com>, "b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] barak (bless? curse?) in the Book of Job
  • Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 08:23:50 -0800 (PST)

Karl,

"But outside of slang where thereis a deliberate attempt at obfuscation, no
where is that semantic range so
broad that a word can have one meaning and its opposite."
 
What about olam (and in Greek, aion/aionios) ?  Can't that refer to both time
and eternity?  Aren't these opposite meanings?
 
John Estell




________________________________
From: K Randolph <kwrandolph AT gmail.com>
To: "b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 2:09:45 AM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] barak (bless? curse?) in the Book of Job

John:

On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 9:24 PM, John Estell <oldearther AT yahoo.com> wrote:

> "*The functional meaning of a word does not change from context to
> context.*"
>
> Maybe I don't know what you mean by "functional meaning", but when a word
> has different meanings, then context determines what meaning is in view.
>

Yes and no. Words have what I call a "semantic range", some with a wide
range of meaning, some with a narrow one. But outside of slang where there
is a deliberate attempt at obfuscation, no where is that semantic range so
broad that a word can have one meaning and its opposite. I have seen no
evidence that such slang was ever used in the Bible, have you?

For words that have a broad semantic range, the context can indicate where
within that semantic range the understanding may lie, and in translation,
which is the best word to use in the target language, but it cannot change a
word's meaning.


>  If BRK is indeed used euphemistically to mean something like "renounce"
> or "blaspheme", then your criticism does not apply.
>
>
That's just my point, I see no evidence that it is used euphemistically to
indicate the opposite of its meaning. I have no problem with euphemisms in
the Bible, one of the more common being )BD meaning to become lost, being
used as a euphemism for to die ("He is lost to us"). Furthermore, many words
are used semi-poetically, even in prose texts. But euphemisms do not have
the opposite of a word's regular meaning, and in the context of these verses
in Job, even the contexts indicate that such a euphemism is not necessary.


> Great discussion, fellas.
>
> John Estell
>
>
Karl W. Randolph.
_______________________________________________
b-hebrew mailing list
b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew




>From kwrandolph AT gmail.com Thu Jan 29 12:18:54 2009
Return-Path: <kwrandolph AT gmail.com>
X-Original-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Delivered-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Received: by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix, from userid 3002)
id D22D04C014; Thu, 29 Jan 2009 12:18:54 -0500 (EST)
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on malecky
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE
autolearn=disabled version=3.2.3
Received: from an-out-0708.google.com (an-out-0708.google.com
[209.85.132.249])
by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EC324C017
for <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>; Thu, 29 Jan 2009 12:18:54 -0500
(EST)
Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id d11so10254and.15
for <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>; Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:18:54 -0800
(PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.142.193.13 with SMTP id q13mr104200wff.32.1233249533478; Thu,
29 Jan 2009 09:18:53 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <707336.50805.qm AT web59503.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <17728.75259.qm AT web110013.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
<4980A41C.7080603 AT earthlink.net>
<acd782170901281100i23b6e687hdd1008ccb3e69c09 AT mail.gmail.com>
<4980BE3F.7060600 AT earthlink.net>
<acd782170901281548v5268e64dyd1d5757031510b9e AT mail.gmail.com>
<498107FF.2000407 AT earthlink.net>
<acd782170901282049w433df403v521b2cfea1a7e238 AT mail.gmail.com>
<719491.61873.qm AT web59503.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
<acd782170901282309k7aae0805i5d963277e2d010a2 AT mail.gmail.com>
<707336.50805.qm AT web59503.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:18:53 -0800
Message-ID: <acd782170901290918x762a3b80m73299b99c3140de5 AT mail.gmail.com>
From: K Randolph <kwrandolph AT gmail.com>
To: "b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] barak (bless? curse?) in the Book of Job
X-BeenThere: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Biblical Hebrew Forum <b-hebrew.lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
<mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/b-hebrew>
List-Post: <mailto:b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Help: <mailto:sympa AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=HELP>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
<mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 17:18:55 -0000

John:

On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 8:23 AM, John Estell <oldearther AT yahoo.com> wrote:

> Karl,
>
> *"But outside of slang where thereis a deliberate attempt at obfuscation,
> no where is that semantic range so
> broad that a word can have one meaning and its opposite."
> *
>
> **
>
> What about *olam* (and in Greek, *aion/aionios*) ? Can't that refer to
> both time and eternity? Aren't these opposite meanings?
>
> The question of (WLM was debated in greater detail before. It comes from
the same root as "to cause to be unknown" i.e. to hide, (LMWT alamut the
unknown, T(LMH unknown thing, and in reference to time, it is to a time of
unknown span. By extension, eternity also extends off into the unknown. So
the two are related, not opposite.

This has often led to misunderstanding of texts, as when people see (WLM
they assume that eternity is meant, when only a time span of unknown length
but which has a definite end is meant in the text.

The Greek word refers to an eon, a very long span of time, and by extension,
eternity. But that's Greek.

>
> John Estell
>

Karl W. Randolph.




Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page