Biblical Hebrew Forum

[<pporta AT oham.net>]

Remark:

As a general rule,
-Prefix MWO (mo-) is -with some exception- that of the hiphil (of verbs 
pe-yod). (Look at www.oham.net/out/P-d/P-d.html beginning from number 201)
-Prefix MU- or MW (mu-) is that of the hophal or huphal (of verbs pe-yod). 
Look at www.oham.net/out/P-d/P-d.204.html
and www.oham.net/out/P-d/P-d.205.html
Not a prefix of the piel!

Dozens of samples could be shown.

-Hiphil ------- MWO$FBFH, village; MWODF(FH, advertisement...
-Hophal/Huphal ----- MWCF)WT --- Jer 38:22; MW(FDYM -- Jr 24:1; MWDA(AT ---
Is 12:5Q

As regards what you say about the Hebrew Participle as an equivalent of our
Present tense... you're right at saying that its use in the Bible is rather
complex. But I feel it would be difficult to explain the Hebrew Participle
without any mention to its value or use as an equivalent of the Present
tense of our modern west-european languages.

Greetings!

Pere Porta



> > Dear Karl,
> > our friend Kenneth was not quite mistaken at saying that the word in Mic
> > 5:1is a Hoph'al Participle, singular feminine.
> While it is possible that this is a hophal, because of the way the waw and
> yod interchange with most peh yod verbs, it could also be a piel, a pual
> or
> even a defectively written hiphil. From the context and from the suffix,
> the
> indications are that it is a piel.
>
> > You write:
> >
> > > It is not a hophal present tense feminine, that is a modern Hebrew
> > > construct, not Biblical Hebrew. Nor is it based on hophal, the waw >
> > > instead of the yod when conjugated or in derived words is common > among
> > > peh-yod verbs, as is YC), without it being hophal.
>
> > We find in Gn 38:25 a quite near word to that in question (the second
> > word
> > in the verse). And it is JUST Hophal Participle, singular feminine (or
> > Huphal, if you prefer).
>
>
> Even there, look carefully at the context. The actor is male, from the
> context Judah.  As he is in the process of leaving, Tamar sends to him
> indications that causes him to change his mind. Sounds like a piel to me.
>
> That particular participle is used three times, the third time in Song of
> Songs 8:10. Each time it has a tau for an ending.
>
> > So we must be very careful and think twice of it before we write such a
> > sentence as that of yours:
> >
> > > It is not a hophal present tense feminine, that is a modern Hebrew
> > > construct, NOT BIBLICAL Hebrew.
> > (Capitals are mine)
> >
> > The use of the participle as an indicator of the present tense is a
> > modern
> construct, not Biblical Hebrew. In Biblical Hebrew the use of the
> participle
> is more complex, and does not match the English use. Sometimes in
> translation we can use the present tense in English, because translating
> the
> full meaning is both stilted and quite wordy, but that does not fully
> indicate the Hebrew meaning.
>
>
> > Things like this, though understandable from a human point of view
> > (every human being --even me, Pere-- is subject to be mistaken), are
> > likely
> > to cause a deep feeling of confusion on those who, so to say, are
> > beginners
> > in biblical Hebrew study. Remember that you and me (and all!) were some
> > day
> > beginners in biblical Hebrew study.
> >
> > We are all still students of the language, one that is imperfectly
> preserved (some terms have lost their meanings (they were forgotten) and
> traditions have grown up around others that are not necessarily correct),
> so
> that none of us can read the text without making mistakes. I am one who
> goes
> so far as to say that the Masoretic points are not Biblical Hebrew, even
> though they were invented to preserve a pronunciation tradition of Tanakh
> that existed at that time.
>
> But when a person indicates the use of a participle in Biblical Hebrew as
> "present tense", does that not already indicate confusion that should be
> clarified?
>
>
> > Quite heartly,
> >
> > Pere Porta
> > Barcelona (Catalonia, Spain)
>
> Yours,
> Karl W. Randolph.
> _______________________________________________
> b-hebrew mailing list
> b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew