Biblical Hebrew Forum

[kgraham0938 AT comcast.net]

BDB, seems to think BA'AL HERMON is an actual city.
BA'AL HERMON a city so named as seat of the worship of Baal. ‘The crest of 
Hermon is strewn with ruins and the foundations of a circular temple of large 
hewn stones,’ Tristr:Tpg, cf. on sacredness, Euseb. Lag:Onom 217: possibly = 
BA'AL GAD
I'm wondering if it is possible that the various names in 1 Chron may refer 
to two different peaks?
BDB says that Sener and Hermon are probably referring to these two peaks in 1 
Chronicles
It has three peaks; and the names Hermon and Sener aredistinguished in 1 Ch 
5:23 Ct 4:8, may refer to two of these peaks; 
So maybe Ba'al Hermon is referring to an actual city & Hermon in 1 Ch is 
referring to one of the peaks of the mountain.
--
Kelton Graham 
KGRAHAM0938 AT comcast.net

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: Yigal Levin <leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il> 

> I'll re-state the problem. While (Mount) Hermon is well-known and appears 
> quite 
> a few times in the Bible, the specific form "Baal-Hermon" appears in ONLY 
> two 
> sources, and both are problematic: 
> The first is in the boundary description of Judges 3:3: instead of Joshua's 
> "Baal-Gad under Mount Hermon", Judges has "Baal-Hermon". Were this the ONLY 
> source, there would be little doubt that this is a "ghost name" created by 
> Judges' abbreviation of Josh. 13:5 
> 
> However, there's 1 Chr. 5. The geographical context is close enough to make 
> it 
> unlikely that this is a different place with the same name (unless there's 
> another Hermon as well...). Where did Chr.'s description come from? If it 
> is 
> taken from a source that is ultimately independent of Judges 3:3, that 
> would be 
> evidence of "Baal-Hermon" being a real place, which would force a 
> re-asessment 
> of the realationship between Judges 3:3 and Josh. 13:5 (that the former is 
> NOT 
> just an abbreviation of the latter). If not, then we have to understand why 
> Chr. 
> took only that term from Judges 3:3, in a description that seems related to 
> Deut. 3. 
> 
> Yigal Levin 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: kgraham0938 AT comcast.net 
> To: Yigal Levin ; b-hebrew ; biblical-studies AT yahoogroups.com ; 
> biblicalist AT yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 4:24 AM 
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Baal-Hermon 
> 
> 
> I'm wondering if BAAL-HERMON is referring to the high places that exist on 
> top 
> of Mt Hermon. Or maybe the NIV rendering is correct and take those vavs as 
> appositional. 
> 
> 1 Chronicles 5:23 The people of the half-tribe of Manasseh were numerous; 
> they settled in the land from Bashan to Baal Hermon, that is, to Senir 
> (Mount 
> Hermon). 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Kelton Graham 
> KGRAHAM0938 AT comcast.net 
> 
> -------------- Original message -------------- 
> From: Yigal Levin 
> 
> > Baal-Hermon appears in the boundary of the land not conquered by Joshua, 
> > according to the abbreviated description in Judges 3:3: "From Mount 
> Baal-Hermon 
> > unto Lebo-Hamath". In the more complete text in Josh. 13:5, the same 
> boundary is 
> > described as stretching "from Baal-Gad under Mount Hermon unto 
> Lebo-Hamath." 
> > While some scholars have attempted to explain the name "Baal-Hermon" as 
> > designating the peak of Mount Hermon, overlooking Baal-Gad itself 
> (probably in 
> > the southern Baqa', near Hasbayeh), most assume either that the names are 
> > synonymous, or even that the version in Judges is erroneous, a "ghost 
> > place-name" caused by the abbreviated boundary-list. However Baal-Hermon 
> is also 
> > given as part of the bounda ry of the Transjordanian half-tribe of 
> Menasseh in 1 
> > Chr. 5:23: "from Bashan unto Baal-Hermon and Senir and Mount Hermon". 
> > This 
> could 
> > be seen either as evidence of there actually being such a place, which 
> > was 
> known 
> > to either the Chronicler or his immediate source, even though 
> > it is not mentioned anywhere else, or of the fact that the Chronicler or 
> his 
> > immediate source, when composing his description of the Menassite 
> territory, 
> > chose to combine this particular element from Judges 3:3 with the other 
> names 
> > that seem more based on Deut. 3:8-13 (which is the only other place in 
> which 
> > Hermon, Senir and Bashan are listed together, in a description of the 
> > Transjordanian tribes). 
> > 
> > So which is it: is there such a place (and where is it), or did the 
> Chronicler 
> > pick up a "ghost-name" from an unexpected source? 
> > 
> > Yigal Levin 
> > _________________________________ _______ _______ 
> > b-hebrew mailing list 
> > b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org 
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew 
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>From kgraham0938 AT comcast.net  Sun Sep  7 19:29:02 2008
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From: kgraham0938 AT comcast.net
To: Bill Rea <bill.rea AT canterbury.ac.nz>, b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 23:28:54 +0000
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Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] What is that to be eaten 2 Kings 6:25?
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And the NET footnotes says that dove's dung was name for husk of seeds.

Based on evidence from Akkadian, M. Cogan and H. Tadmor (II Kings [AB], 79) 
suggest that "dove's dung" was a popular name for the inedible husks of 
seeds. 

--
Kelton Graham 
KGRAHAM0938 AT comcast.net

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: Bill Rea <bill.rea AT canterbury.ac.nz> 

> Jack wrote:- 
> 
> > The word in question (dibyown) is of course a hapax legomenon which does 
> > not 
> > seem to be derived from any obvious Hebrew roots. The "doves dung" is the 
> > ketib. The LXX translates this as dove's dung (kabou koprou peristerwn). 
> > However even if we take the ketib and LXX at face value, that does not 
> > mean 
> > people were actually eating doves dung. In Mexico and the US Southwest 
> > there 
> > is a popular confection called "churros", a long narrow lump of fried 
> > dough 
> > sprinkled with sugar and cinnamon. It is possible to translate "churros" 
> > as 
> > dung although there are more graphic and accurate words available in 
> > English 
> > language. The name is merely reflective of the general appearance of the 
> > food, particularly when it made by hand, and perhaps the fact it an 
> > inexpensive food popular with the poorer strata of society. Perhaps 
> > "doves 
> > dung" is something similar. 
> 
> A number of English translations have a footnote to say these were a type 
> of 
> seed pod. How reliable that is I have no idea but it seems a reasonable 
> suggestion. 
> 
> 
> Bill Rea, ICT Services, University of Canterbury \_ 
> E-Mail bill.rea AT canterbury.ac.nz > Phone 64-3-364-2331, Fax 64-3-364-2332 
> /) Zealand 
> Unix Systems Administrator (/' 
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>From kwonbbl AT gmail.com  Sun Sep  7 22:17:38 2008
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Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] What is that to be eaten 2 Kings 6:25?
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On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 7:28 PM,  <kgraham0938 AT comcast.net> wrote:
> And the NET footnotes says that dove's dung was name for husk of seeds.
>
> Based on evidence from Akkadian, M. Cogan and H. Tadmor (II Kings [AB], 79) 
> suggest that "dove's dung" was a popular name for the inedible husks of 
> seeds.
>
> --
> Kelton Graham
> KGRAHAM0938 AT comcast.net
>
>
.(they) suggest that ...

How sure these authors were?

Oun Kwon.