Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Yigal Levin <leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il>]

Baal-Hermon appears in the boundary of the land not conquered by Joshua, 
according to the abbreviated description in Judges 3:3: "From Mount 
Baal-Hermon unto Lebo-Hamath". In the more complete text in Josh. 13:5, the 
same boundary is described as stretching "from Baal-Gad under Mount Hermon 
unto Lebo-Hamath." While some scholars have attempted to explain the name 
"Baal-Hermon" as designating the peak of Mount Hermon, overlooking Baal-Gad 
itself (probably in the southern Baqa', near Hasbayeh), most assume either 
that the names are synonymous, or even that the version in Judges is 
erroneous, a "ghost place-name" caused by the abbreviated boundary-list. 
However Baal-Hermon is also given as part of the boundary of the 
Transjordanian half-tribe of Menasseh in 1 Chr. 5:23: "from Bashan unto 
Baal-Hermon and Senir and Mount Hermon". This could be seen either as 
evidence of there actually being such a place, which was known to either the 
Chronicler or his immediate source, even though it is not mentioned anywhere 
else, or of the fact that the Chronicler or his immediate source, when 
composing his description of the Menassite territory, chose to combine this 
particular element from Judges 3:3 with the other names that seem more based 
on Deut. 3:8-13 (which is the only other place in which Hermon, Senir and 
Bashan are listed together, in a description of the Transjordanian tribes).

So which is it: is there such a place (and where is it), or did the 
Chronicler pick up a "ghost-name" from an unexpected source?

Yigal Levin
>From kgraham0938 AT comcast.net  Sat Sep  6 21:24:35 2008
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From: kgraham0938 AT comcast.net
To: Yigal Levin <leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il>,
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        biblical-studies AT yahoogroups.com, biblicalist AT yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 01:24:27 +0000
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Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Baal-Hermon
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I'm wondering if BAAL-HERMON is referring to the high places that exist on 
top of Mt Hermon.  Or maybe the NIV rendering is correct and take those vavs 
as appositional.

 1 Chronicles 5:23 The people of the half-tribe of Manasseh were numerous; 
they settled in the land from Bashan to Baal Hermon, that is, to Senir (Mount 
Hermon).

--
Kelton Graham
KGRAHAM0938 AT comcast.net

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Yigal Levin <leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il>

> Baal-Hermon appears in the boundary of the land not conquered by Joshua,
> according to the abbreviated description in Judges 3:3: "From Mount 
> Baal-Hermon
> unto Lebo-Hamath". In the more complete text in Josh. 13:5, the same 
> boundary is
> described as stretching "from Baal-Gad under Mount Hermon unto Lebo-Hamath."
> While some scholars have attempted to explain the name "Baal-Hermon" as
> designating the peak of Mount Hermon, overlooking Baal-Gad itself (probably 
> in
> the southern Baqa', near Hasbayeh), most assume either that the names are
> synonymous, or even that the version in Judges is erroneous, a "ghost
> place-name" caused by the abbreviated boundary-list. However Baal-Hermon is 
> also
> given as part of the boundary of the Transjordanian half-tribe of Menasseh 
> in 1
> Chr. 5:23: "from Bashan unto Baal-Hermon and Senir and Mount Hermon". This 
> could
> be seen either as evidence of there actually being such a place, which was 
> known
> to either the Chronicler or his immediate source, even though
> it is not mentioned anywhere else, or of the fact that the Chronicler or his
> immediate source, when composing his description of the Menassite territory,
> chose to combine this particular element from Judges 3:3 with the other 
> names
> that seem more based on Deut. 3:8-13 (which is the only other place in which
> Hermon, Senir and Bashan are listed together, in a description of the
> Transjordanian tribes).
>
> So which is it: is there such a place (and where is it), or did the 
> Chronicler
> pick up a "ghost-name" from an unexpected source?
>
> Yigal Levin
> _______________________________________________
> b-hebrew mailing list
> b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
>From leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il  Sun Sep  7 00:55:14 2008
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Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 07:54:48 +0300
From: Yigal Levin <leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il>
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I'll re-state the problem. While (Mount) Hermon is well-known and appears 
quite a few times in the Bible, the specific form "Baal-Hermon" appears in 
ONLY two sources, and both are problematic: 
The first is in the boundary description of Judges 3:3: instead of Joshua's 
"Baal-Gad under Mount Hermon", Judges has "Baal-Hermon". Were this the ONLY 
source, there would be little doubt that this is a "ghost name" created by 
Judges' abbreviation of Josh. 13:5

However, there's 1 Chr. 5. The geographical context is close enough to make 
it unlikely that this is a different place with the same name (unless there's 
another Hermon as well...). Where did Chr.'s description come from? If it is 
taken from a source that is ultimately independent of Judges 3:3, that would 
be evidence of "Baal-Hermon" being a real place, which would force a 
re-asessment of the realationship between Judges 3:3 and Josh. 13:5 (that the 
former is NOT just an abbreviation of the latter). If not, then we have to 
understand why Chr. took only that term from Judges 3:3, in a description 
that seems related to Deut. 3.

Yigal Levin

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: kgraham0938 AT comcast.net 
  To: Yigal Levin ; b-hebrew ; biblical-studies AT yahoogroups.com ; 
biblicalist AT yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 4:24 AM
  Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Baal-Hermon


  I'm wondering if BAAL-HERMON is referring to the high places that exist on 
top of Mt Hermon.  Or maybe the NIV rendering is correct and take those vavs 
as appositional.

   1 Chronicles 5:23 The people of the half-tribe of Manasseh were numerous; 
they settled in the land from Bashan to Baal Hermon, that is, to Senir (Mount 
Hermon).


  --
  Kelton Graham 
  KGRAHAM0938 AT comcast.net

    -------------- Original message -------------- 
    From: Yigal Levin <leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il> 

    > Baal-Hermon appears in the boundary of the land not conquered by 
Joshua, 
    > according to the abbreviated description in Judges 3:3: "From Mount 
Baal-Hermon 
    > unto Lebo-Hamath". In the more complete text in Josh. 13:5, the same 
boundary is 
    > described as stretching "from Baal-Gad under Mount Hermon unto 
Lebo-Hamath." 
    > While some scholars have attempted to explain the name "Baal-Hermon" as 
    > designating the peak of Mount Hermon, overlooking Baal-Gad itself 
(probably in 
    > the southern Baqa', near Hasbayeh), most assume either that the names 
are 
    > synonymous, or even that the version in Judges is erroneous, a "ghost 
    > place-name" caused by the abbreviated boundary-list. However 
Baal-Hermon is also 
    > given as part of the bounda ry of the Transjordanian half-tribe of 
Menasseh in 1 
    > Chr. 5:23: "from Bashan unto Baal-Hermon and Senir and Mount Hermon". 
This could 
    > be seen either as evidence of there actually being such a place, which 
was known 
    > to either the Chronicler or his immediate source, even though 
    > it is not mentioned anywhere else, or of the fact that the Chronicler 
or his 
    > immediate source, when composing his description of the Menassite 
territory, 
    > chose to combine this particular element from Judges 3:3 with the other 
names 
    > that seem more based on Deut. 3:8-13 (which is the only other place in 
which 
    > Hermon, Senir and Bashan are listed together, in a description of the 
    > Transjordanian tribes). 
    > 
    > So which is it: is there such a place (and where is it), or did the 
Chronicler 
    > pick up a "ghost-name" from an unexpected source? 
    > 
    > Yigal Levin 
    > _________________________________ _______ _______ 
    > b-hebrew mailing list 
    > b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org 
    > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew 
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