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  • From: Isaac Fried <if AT math.bu.edu>
  • To: <pporta AT oham.net>
  • Cc: B-Hebrew Hebrew <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Qohelet, chapter 12
  • Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 07:36:29 -0400

Pere,

I am not in the habit of looking at foreign translations of the HB. In my Qoren edition of the TN"K the word BOR)-EY-KA is written with a yod [so also in the Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia] and I see it as plural. Indeed, "Remember your Creator in the days of your youth" does not make as much sense as "Keep in mind your forebears [some old, some dead] in the days of your youth".
I would relate this BR) to the BAR, 'son, child', of Proverbs 31:2.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

On Apr 22, 2008, at 1:00 AM, <pporta AT oham.net> wrote:

Isaac,

1. Are you sure that "BWR)YK" means here "your ancestors" and not "your Creator" (= God, the Creator: Gn 1:1)?
2. Do you know of any translation -either to English or to another language- that has "your ancestors" (or equivalent) and not "your Creator" (or equivalent)?

Pere Porta
----- Original Message -----
From: Isaac Fried
To: <pporta AT oham.net>
Cc: B-Hebrew Hebrew
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 2:50 AM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Qohelet, chapter 12

Pere,

To ask within the language what a Hebrew verb means is to ask for its concrete, root meaning. The root ZKR contains the letter R and is hence referring to a material state of dispersion or aggregation. By the equivalence assumption on G, H, X, K, Q and D, Z, T, Y, S, C, $, T it is a member of the extended family of roots (some not in the HB)
דגר, יגר, סגר, שגר, תגר
דהר, זהר, טהר, יהר, סהר, צהר
טחר, יחר, סחר, צחר, שחר, תחר
זכר, סכר, שכר
דקר, זקר, יקר, שקר
The verb ZAKAR, 'integrate, assimilate, remember, recall to mind' is obviously a borrowing from ZHR, 'shine', SGR, 'enclose', SKR, 'accumulate', and, the outer, ZQR, 'rise, thrust up'.
The BOR)-EY-KA of Ecclesiastes 12:1 is in the plural and means 'your ancestors, your progenitors, your forefathers' (that were also once young but are now gone.)

Isaac Fried, Boston University

On Apr 21, 2008, at 12:26 AM, <pporta AT oham.net> <pporta AT oham.net> wrote:
As I said some weeks ago, I'm reading Qohelet chapter 12 and trying to
extend my understanding of it.
So verse 1: WZ:KOR )ET BWOR:)EKF...., remember your creator in the days of
your youth... has, to my sense, a range of issues to deal with:

1. May we infer from this that chapter 12 was mainly written -or even ONLY
written- for young people?
2. May we understand the term B:XWROTEYKF not only as the youth time of our
life (say from 15 to 30 years of our life) but also as all the time of our
life that is before we become aged and/or decrepit?
3. What does here the verb "ZKR" really mean?

Does it mean:

A. Be aware that man has been created by someone, that no man has created
himself?
B. Remember to worship this Creator and keep his rules?

What is in fact the extent of this verb "ZKR"? Does this ZKR get the same
extent, for example, as ZKR in Ecc 9:15, where it is said that people did
not remember (namely they forgot) a man who had by his wisdom delivered them
from ennemies?

Pere Porta
Barcelona (Spain)

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