Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Isaac Fried <if AT math.bu.edu>]

Pere,

I am not in the habit of looking at foreign translations of the HB.  
In my Qoren edition of the TN"K the word BOR)-EY-KA is written with a  
yod [so also in the Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia] and I see it as  
plural. Indeed, "Remember your Creator in the days of your youth"  
does not make as much sense as "Keep in mind your forebears [some  
old, some dead] in the days of your youth".
I would relate this BR) to the BAR, 'son, child', of Proverbs 31:2.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

On Apr 22, 2008, at 1:00 AM, <pporta AT oham.net> wrote:

> Isaac,
>
> 1. Are you sure that "BWR)YK" means here "your ancestors" and not  
> "your Creator" (= God, the Creator: Gn 1:1)?
> 2. Do you know of any translation  -either to English or to another  
> language- that has "your ancestors" (or equivalent) and not "your  
> Creator" (or equivalent)?
>
> Pere Porta
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Isaac Fried
> To: <pporta AT oham.net>
> Cc: B-Hebrew Hebrew
> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 2:50 AM
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Qohelet, chapter 12
>
> Pere,
>
> To ask within the language what a Hebrew verb means is to ask for  
> its concrete, root meaning. The root ZKR contains the letter R and  
> is hence referring to a material state of dispersion or  
> aggregation. By the equivalence assumption on G, H, X, K, Q and D,  
> Z, T, Y, S, C, $, T it is a member of the extended family of roots  
> (some not in the HB)
> דגר, יגר, סגר, שגר, תגר
> דהר, זהר, טהר, יהר, סהר, צהר
> טחר, יחר, סחר, צחר, שחר, תחר
> זכר, סכר, שכר
> דקר, זקר, יקר, שקר
> The verb ZAKAR, 'integrate, assimilate, remember, recall to mind'  
> is obviously a borrowing from ZHR, 'shine', SGR, 'enclose', SKR,  
> 'accumulate', and, the outer, ZQR, 'rise, thrust up'.
> The BOR)-EY-KA of Ecclesiastes 12:1 is in the plural and means  
> 'your ancestors, your progenitors, your forefathers' (that were  
> also once young but are now gone.)
>
> Isaac Fried, Boston University
>
> On Apr 21, 2008, at 12:26 AM, <pporta AT oham.net> <pporta AT oham.net>  
> wrote:
> > As I said some weeks ago, I'm reading Qohelet chapter 12 and  
> > trying to
> > extend my understanding of it.
> > So verse 1: WZ:KOR )ET BWOR:)EKF...., remember your creator in the  
> > days of
> > your youth... has, to my sense, a range of issues to deal with:
> >
> > 1. May we infer from this that chapter 12 was mainly written  -or  
> > even ONLY
> > written-  for young people?
> > 2. May we understand the term B:XWROTEYKF not only as the youth  
> > time of our
> > life (say from 15 to 30 years of our life) but also as all the  
> > time of our
> > life that is before we become aged and/or decrepit?
> > 3. What does here the verb "ZKR" really mean?
> >
> > Does it mean:
> >
> > A. Be aware that man has been created by someone, that no man has  
> > created
> > himself?
> > B. Remember to worship this Creator and keep his rules?
> >
> > What is in fact the extent of this verb "ZKR"?  Does this ZKR get  
> > the same
> > extent, for example, as ZKR in Ecc 9:15, where it is said that  
> > people did
> > not remember (namely they forgot) a man who had by his wisdom  
> > delivered them
> > from ennemies?
> >
> > Pere Porta
> > Barcelona (Spain)
> >
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