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  • From: Shoshanna Walker <rosewalk AT concentric.net>
  • To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: [b-hebrew] Genesis 20: 1
  • Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 23:34:48 -0400

Jim, I can't EVEN read your run-on sentences.

G-d said that Avraham was a Prophet and that he knew. You keep changing the subject, you are GROPING to disprove the Torah. NOT MY PROBLEM!

All the rest of your post is just changing the subject, if you believe that a few human beings wrote the Torah, then you are going to be subject, forever, to endless doubts as to what it reports, how true it is, what it means, who said what, what is true and what is false - and I admit, if you have a tendency to promote your own ideas about what the Torah "really" is saying, - then this position, that a few people wrote the Torah - certainly would suit your purposes - and you could go on forever ignoring whichever information, as suits you, that is given PLAINLY in the Text, in order to promote whatever arbitrary ideas you would like to believe.

For instance, if, as you claim, S'dom was in the North, and not in the Dead Sea area, where ALL THE MOUNTAINS ARE MADE OF SALT (maybe you don't know Israel so well, but you can actually break off pieces of the mountains, and they are pieces composed of crystals of SALT, and salty to taste), then you would have to call G-d a liar for reporting that Lot's wife was turned into a pillar of salt for turning around to look at S'dom up in the north - after all, if the whole story took place in the north, WHERE THERE ARE NO SALT MOUNTAINS, then that is much more of a geographical impossibility than that of Avraham being able to see the SMOKE of the destruction of 4 cities from not a lot of miles west of them, which is not impossible at all - as I could see the actual waters of the Dead Sea from Jerusalem.

Layla Tov


Shoshanna


Shoshanna:
If YHWH had told Abraham, in a conversation not reported in the text, that
nothing had happened between Abimelech and Sarah, then why wouldn’Äôt Abraham be
ecstatic with joy at Isaac’Äôs birth? Sarah is ecstatic with joy at Isaac’Äôs
birth, but Abraham says nothing.
’ÄúAnd Abraham was a hundred years old, when his son Isaac was born unto him.
And Sarah said: 'God hath made laughter for me; every one that heareth will
laugh on account of me.’Äô And she said: 'Who would have said unto Abraham,
that Sarah should give children suck? for I have borne him a son in his old
age.' And the child grew, and was weaned.’Äù Genesis 21: 5-8
Abraham is not reported to praise YHWH upon Isaac’Äôs birth. Abraham is not
reported to say one nice word to or about Isaac prior to the binding
incident.
Why?
The author of the Patriarchal narratives has not made a ’Äúmistake’Äù, nor
has
he ’Äúoverlooked’Äù this issue. Rather, the author is forcing us to consider
that Abraham may have had doubts about what had happened, or not happened, when
Sarah was in Abimelech’Äôs household.
Perhaps nothing at all happened. But based on what the text says, it does
not appear that YHWH told Abraham that nothing had happened. That is a key
element in the text.
I agree with you that the text is perfect, as is. But I do not agree that
these stories are simple. The author is laying his real point between the
lines a little bit.
It may well be that nothing in fact happened between Abimelech and Sarah,
but what I am saying is that Abraham does not appear to know that.
That is the key for making this story work, historically. Abraham must have
a bona fide doubt, for many years, as to whether Isaac is his blood son or
his adopted son. It is virtually certain that in fact, Isaac is Abraham’Äôs
blood son. Though much less certain, nothing at all may have happened
between
Abimelech and Sarah. But the key is that Abraham is not sure what did or did
not happen between Abimelech and Sarah. That’Äôs all I’Äôm saying.
If Abraham had been certain from the beginning that nothing at all had
happened between Abimelech and Sarah, Abraham would have jumped for joy at Isaac’Äôs
birth. The text reports, however, that whereas Sarah waxed lyrical at
Isaac’Äô
s birth, Abraham said nothing (other than to confirm Isaac’Äôs divinely-given
name). Abraham’Äôs silence speaks volumes as to what Abraham knew for sure
from YHWH, and what Abraham had his doubts about.
In the end, Isaac is Abraham’Äôs blood son. But the way the text tells the
story, Abraham was not sure about that for many years.
Jim Stinehart
Evanston, Illinois



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