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  • From: "Read, James C" <K0434995 AT kingston.ac.uk>
  • To: "Harold R. Holmyard III" <hholmyard AT ont.com>, <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>, <=@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Yom in Biblical and Rabbinic Texts
  • Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 22:41:56 +0100

I agree that Daniel's prophecy is definitely talking about years.
But I hazard that while the original meaning of the word was seven,
that many hearing this construct 'seventy sevens' out of context
would have more readily understood 70 weeks.
When talking about time 'seven' had the primary meaning of 'week'.
A week being seven days and the seventh day being the 'shabath'
etymologically linked to the number 7 which comes from the verb
'to rest' as you already know.

An English example may be 'fortnight' which is shortened form of
'fourteen nights' or more simpy put 'two weeks'. If I spoke about
a 'fortnight of plagues' and historical sources showed that the
period I was referring to was of 14 years, you would naturally conclude
that I was talking about a 14 year period and making poetic use of
the word 'fortnight' which fits the context poetically as 14 nights
could be metaphorically indicative of 14 dark periods. However, under
no circumstances would you ever propose that 'fortnight' actually meant
'14 years' in a context other than a poetic usage.

-----Original Message-----
From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org on behalf of Harold R. Holmyard III
Sent: Thu 10/27/2005 9:59 PM
To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org; =@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Yom in Biblical and Rabbinic Texts

Dear James,

>Exactly! But when we ask a hebrew, what will they immediately think
>these 'sevens' are?

HH: I think they would assume years. There are
years counted by sevens elsewhere in Scripture,
so it did not seem that unique to me:

Gen. 29:27 Finish this daughter's bridal week;
then we will give you the younger one also, in
return for another seven years of work."

HH: This is literally, "Finish this seven, and we
will give . . . ." The word "seven" is the same
word used in Dan 9:24-27, where many important
historical events probably would not be thought
to occur in a matter of days. Also, when Daniel
began his prayer, he was concerned about the
seventy years of judgment that were ending:

Dan. 9:2 in the first year of his reign, I,
Daniel, understood from the Scriptures, according
to the word of the LORD given to Jeremiah the
prophet, that the desolation of Jerusalem would
last seventy years.
Dan. 9:3 So I turned to the Lord God and pleaded
with him in prayer and petition, in fasting, and
in sackcloth and ashes.

HH: The angel who answered his prayer spoke about seventy "sevens":

Dan. 9:21 while I was still in prayer, Gabriel,
the man I had seen in the earlier vision, came to
me in swift flight about the time of the evening
sacrifice.
Dan. 9:22 He instructed me and said to me,
"Daniel, I have now come to give you insight and
understanding.
Dan. 9:23 As soon as you began to pray, an answer
was given, which I have come to tell you, for you
are highly esteemed. Therefore, consider the
message and understand the vision:
Dan. 9:24 ΒΆ "Seventy 'sevens' are decreed for
your people and your holy city to finish
transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for
wickedness, to bring in everlasting
righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and
to anoint the most holy.

HH: Since the seventy years of past judgment seem
to be the take-off point for this prophecy about
the future, the seventy "sevens" probably also
refer to years, and Daniel would probably have
realized that. The angel was giving information
that seemed to carry to the end of the age (v.
24).

Yours,
Harold Holmyard


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>From peter AT qaya.org Thu Oct 27 18:04:12 2005
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Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Yom in Biblical and Rabbinic Texts
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On 27/10/2005 22:41, Read, James C wrote:

>...
>A week being seven days and the seventh day being the 'shabath'
>etymologically linked to the number 7 which comes from the verb
>'to rest' as you already know.
>
>
>
Actually I know that this is not true. There are two different Hebrew
roots here, $B( (that's ayin at the end) "seven" and $BT "cease, rest".
Both are common Semitic roots and so far more ancient than Hebrew. It is
just possible that they have a connection in the remote prehistory of
Semitic languages, but I won't go into the implications of this. Anyway,
that connection would not be the derivation of "seven" from "rest",
although just possibly vice versa.

--
Peter Kirk
peter AT qaya.org (personal)
peterkirk AT qaya.org (work)
http://www.qaya.org/





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