Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Peter Kirk <peterkirk AT qaya.org>]

On 21/09/2005 16:59, Vadim Cherny wrote:

> > ...
> English irregular verbs, are they more than 27% of the total? ...


Maybe, but I never claimed that they are a tiny percentage.

> ... Your figure of 26.9% is an overestimation on two counts, as you 
> noted: the
> figure 13,619 does not include popular wayiqtols, ...


Which are even by Rolf's estimates well over 90% past reference - he 
found just 998 non-past WAYYIQTOLs, as posted here on 18th August.

> ... and Rolf's 3,000 likely
> includes many normal future tense yiqtols which he prefers to read as 
> past
> reference according to his views of the context. ...


If you don't like Rolf's own estimates, look at the figures he quotes 
from RSV giving an even higher percentage of past and present YIQTOLs.

> ... So, ballpark, perhaps 15% of yiqtols are not straight future 
> tense, possibly
> even less. ...


No, the ballpark figure is more like 60% "not straight future tense" and 
30% not future at all, from both Rolf's figures and the RSV ones.

> ... 15% for idioms and deictic shifts doesn't sound tremendous.


Maybe not, but even 15% is far more "a tiny percentage".

> ...
>
> Some difficulty in coming to the common ground arises when Hebrew uses
> future case in a way intelligible to Russian speakers, but not to 
> English.
> Such is Genesis 37:15, “A man asked him, asking, What do you want (future
> tense)?” Even in English, the question is oriented into the future.
> Ultra-polite Russian equivalent, “Что изволите?” is future.


This does not mean "What do you want?", but "What are you looking for?" 
or "Что ищешь?", a straight and not especially polite present.

> Just a single example of clear usage of yiqtol as past tense or imperfect
> would suffice for me to retract. But something clear, like "yesterday he
> yiqtol." If Rolf, with his immense experience in fishing for dubious
> yiqtols, could bring just one such example, the discussion would be over.


Genesis 2:6 YA`ALEH
Genesis 2:10 YIPPARED

I think you will recognise that these are past, unless you hold that the 
Garden of Eden will exist only in the future!


--
Peter Kirk
peter AT qaya.org (personal)
peterkirk AT qaya.org (work)
http://www.qaya.org/



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