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  • From: "Rolf Furuli" <furuli AT online.no>
  • To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Evil, God, Satan, & Enoch
  • Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 14:57:22 +0100

Dear Jack,

I have done much work on the book of Enoch, because I have translated it from Ethiopic and into Norwegian. And I must say that some of your words below are not entirely correct. The basic problem for those seeing the book Enoch as an antecedent of some NT ideas, is its age. The book consists of different parts, and some of these parts are written at different times, and an exact dating is difficult.

The work of J. T. Milik (1976) "The Books of Enoch Aramaic Fragments of Qumran Cave 4" shows that just some fragments of parts of the book are among the DSS (a few have been published after Milik`s book). Different scholars have dated Qumran manuscripts differently, and the age of the Enoch fragments is by no means certain.

I would say that any claim that NT ideas have its origin in the book of Enoch are speculative, including the idea that the words of Jude 1:14, 15 is a quote of enoch 1:9. The verb in the clause "he shall come" in Enoch 1:9 is in Ethiopic expressed by perfect, and the verb in the clause "The Lord shall come" in Jude 1:14 is expressed by Greek aorist. Thus, the perfective aspect are in both cases used with future reference, and that is not the most common use of the perfective aspect in either of the languages. This suggests that that there is a clear relationship between Enoch 1:9 and Jude 1:14, 15.

However, Greek manuscripts of Enoch 1:9 with words that are similar to those used in Jude 1:14, 15 are late, and no such manuscript is older than manuscripts of the book of Jude. In the Qumran fragment of Enoch chapter 1 there are only 21 Aramaic letters in parts of three lines, so we cannot know what the Aramaic text said. This means that we cannot exclude the possibility that the Greek text of Enoch 1:9 is dependent on Jude 1:14,15 rather than vice versa. Another possibility is that both sources quote the words of the same source, which is older than both. There are many examples of such quotes both in the OT and the NT of sources that are not viewed as holy Writ.


Best regards

Rolf Furuli
University of Oslo



----- Original Message ----- From: <tladatsi AT charter.net>
To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 2:13 PM
Subject: [b-hebrew] Evil, God, Satan, & Enoch


Hello,

Just a note, that the idea * fallen angels * originated
with the Book of Enoch which was very popular in many
circles, both Christian and Judaic, between 200 BCE - 200
AD. There are three different versions of this story in
Enoch. In one version, the leader of the rebellion is an
overly proud angel called Satanel. In another version, the
leader is Azazel(see Lev 16:8-26) who leads the watchers to
earth and knew the daughters of men (Gen 6:1-4). As
punishment, Azazel is cast out of heaven, bound hand and
foot by the angel Rafa-El, and thrown in a hot hole in the
desert (Duda'el). Enoch also is the origin of the idea of
equating the snake in Eden with Satanel who seeks seduce
Adam and Eve to commit sin.

Enoch fell from favor and was removed from official
Christian canon in the 4th century, although parts of it
are quoted in the letters of St. Jude. Enoch was re-
discovered in Ethopia and other copies were later found at
Qumram.

Jack Tladatsi
_______________________________________________





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