Biblical Hebrew Forum

[George F Somsel <gfsomsel AT juno.com>]

On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 12:33:05 +0100 "Read, James C"
<K0434995 AT kingston.ac.uk> writes:
> Exodus 5:1 is a very interesting verse. It says that 'they' went in 
> to Pharoah and said.
>  
> It is easy to see by the 3mp suffix that they both went in. But who 
> did the talking? Moses? Aaron? or both?
> If we are to use the implied subject alone we would conclude that 
> both did the talking. But does that agree 
> with the context of the larger story at hand?
> 
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 _______________________________________________

I would guess that the verb means exactly what it says, viz. "THEY said .
. ."  This is understandable if we back up to 4.10, 14, 15 where it says 

10     ?????????? ??????? ??????????? ????? ???????? ???? ??????
?????????? ???????? ????? ?????????? ????? ????????????? ????? ??????
???????????? ?????????????? ????? ??????????? ???????? ???????? ?????????

10 WaY.oMeR Mo$eH )eL_YHWH B.iY ):aDoNfY Lo) )i$ D.aB.eRiYM )fNoKiY G.aM
MiT.:MoWL G.aM Mi$iL:$oM G.aM M")fZ D.aB.eR:Kf )eL_(aB:D.eKf K.iY
K:BaD_P.eH W. W.C:BaD Lf$oWN )fNoKiY

14     ?????????????? ??????? ?????????? ??????????? ?????? ????????
????????? ????????? ??????????? ????????????? ????????? ????? ??????
???????????? ?????? ???????????? ????????? ????????? ??????????? 

14 WaY.iXaR_)aP YHWH B.:Mo$eH WaY.o)MeR H:aLo) )aH:aRoN )fXiYKf HaL."WiY
YfDa(T.iY K.iY_DaB."R Y:D:aB."R HW.) W:GaM HiN."H_HW.) YoC") LiQ:Rf)TeKf
W: Rf):aKf W:%fMaX B.:LiB.oW

15     ????????????? ??????? ??????????? ???????????????? ????????
?????????? ????????? ???????????? ?????????????? ???????????? ????????
???? ??????? ???????????? 

15 W:DiB.aR:T.f )"LfYW W:%aM:T.f )eT_HaD.:BfRiYM B.:PiYW W:)fNoKiY
)eH:YeH (iM_P.iYKf W:(iM_P.iYHW. W:HoWR"TiY )eT:KeM )"T ):a$eR T.a(:a%W.N

Thus it was that BOTH indeed spoke.

george
gfsomsel
___________
>From kwrandolph AT email.com  Thu Aug 11 09:37:20 2005
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Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] euphamism, was 2Sam24:1 subjects
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George:

It is not that I oppose the idea of euphemisms for what we=20
also have euphemisms in English, rather I questioned how the=20
use of "feet" is such a euphemism.

In your verses listed below, there is not one that clearly=20
shows such a euphemism existed in B-Hebrew. The last two are=20
not in the text, just in later Qere. I tend to be very=20
suspicious of Qeres that are there for reasons other than=20
correcting obvious copiest errors. Even as a Qere, it is not=20
obvious as such a euphemism, for it could refer to the fluid
that ends up on one's feet.

Of the other verses, angels are described elsewhere as=20
sexless creatures, hence wouldn't have private parts to=20
cover. "Covering one's feet" is precisely the opposite,=20
uncovering privates so that relief is possible. I was taught=20
that RGL, though it emphasized the feet, also included the=20
legs. so that "shaving the hair of the legs" does not=20
necessarily refer to pubic hair.=20

So where is the evidence of such a euphemism? The verse in=20
Exodus has no need for such.

Karl W. Randolph.

----- Original Message -----
From: "George F Somsel" <gfsomsel AT juno.com>

>=20
> On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 10:43:00 -0500 "Karl Randolph" <kwrandolph AT email.com>
> writes:
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "George F Somsel" <gfsomsel AT juno.com>
> > > ...
> > > ______________
> > > ...
> > > > As regards the touching of the "feet" with the foreskin, it is enti=
rely
> > > possible that this is actually a reference to touching Moses' private=
s.
> > > Such euphemisms are not uncommon (see the book of Ruth where she unco=
vers
> > > Boaz' "feet").
> > > > Why would Z know that the act of circumcision (and its symbolic
> > > transference to Moses by touching his "feet" with the foreskin)?  We =
are
> > > not told.  It would probably be a matter of "common knowledge" at the
> > > time.
> > > > george
> > > gfsomsel
> >
> > George, where do you get this euphemism?
> >
> > In the case with Ruth and Boaz, Boaz was sleeping outdoors.=20
> > Outdoors nights are often cool, so it is hard to believe that=20
> > Boaz did not cover himself, feet included, with a cloak or=20
> > blanket brought along for that very purpose. Notice, Naomi=20
> > expected that Boaz would be sleeping next to the threshing floor,=20
> > so this was planned for, not spontaneous as a drunken stupor. So=20
> > from the text, there is no justification from the text for such=20
> > an euphemism.
> >
> > Karl W. Randolph.
>   ___________________________________________________________
>=20
> Karl,
>=20
> Cf. Dt. 25.11
>=20
> K.iY_YiN.fCW. ):aNf$iYM YaX:D.fW )iY$ W:)fXiYW W:Q:aR:BfH )"$eT Hf)eXfD
> L:HaC.iYL )eT_)iY$.fH. MiY.aD MaC."HW. W:$fL:XfH YfDfH. W:HeX:eZiYQfH
> B.iM:Bu$fYW . . .
>=20
> Here the term for genitals is from BW$ or "shame" which is the same as
> the root which is substituted for Baal in many names.  It was thus a
> practice to use a euphemism.  You may read an expurgated TANAK if you
> like, but you're missing the point.
>=20
> The TDNT notes this euphemism and HALOT states
>=20
> =974. a. dual, probably a euphemism for the pubic region Ex 4?25 Is 6?2,
> cf. Wildberger BK 10:248 (see below, B CSH pi.), %a(aR HfRaG:LfYiM pubic
> hair Is 7?20; =97b. SCK: )eT_RaG:LfYW he covered his feet with a garment,
> meaning he relieved himself Ju 3?24 1S 24?4 (? SCK: hif); =97c. $fTfH
> M"YM"Y RaG:L"YHeM (Q), $iYN"YHeM (K) =3D MHeb. M"Y RaG:LaYiM to drink the=
ir
> own urine (? *$aYiN) 2K 1827/Is 36?12.
>=20
> george
> gfsomsel
> ___________


--=20
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