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  • From: "Harold R. Holmyard III" <hholmyard AT ont.com>
  • To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] OT- perspective (was Josiah's book of the Law)
  • Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 14:52:50 -0500

Dear Yitzhak,

Where is "and the empire that he fought?" Besides building an ivory house,
I don't see any thing that is so different from other kings who didn't
successfully defend against the Assyrian empire.

HH: You seem to be requiring the Bible to give a certain piece of information to be fair or complete. But that is a subjective, obviously debatable position to take.

> >Or why does Mesha in the Mesha stele claim he revolted under Omri's son?
>Does he have some hidden agenda in claiming that? Is it not possible that
>the Bible just "slightly corrected" the date of revolt of Mesha so as to
> >"fulfill" the prophecy in 1 Kings 21:28 - 29?

1Kings 21:28-29 ΒΆ Then the word of the LORD came to Elijah the Tishbite: "Have you noticed how Ahab has humbled himself before me? Because he has humbled himself, I will not bring this disaster in his day, but I will bring it on his house in the days of his son."

HH: I am not sure that losing a dependency is necessarily the disaster 1 Kings 21:28-29 had in mind anyway. It is possible that Ahab did suffer some losses of territory to the Moabites, but that would not necessarily be disastrous like the great wrath that came on Israel in Joram's time in his war against Moab (2 Kings 3:27). Joram's time was also when Arameans were making raids on Israel and taking away its citizens (2 Kings 5:2). It was generally a time of war with Aram (2 Kings 6:8). 2 Kings 7 describes a serious Aramean siege of the Israelite capital. There was also a seven-year famine, serious enough for it to be good advice to leave the land for Philistia (2 Kings 8:1-2). And Hazael, king of Aram, was going to set fire to Israel's fortified cities, kill its young men with the sword, dash the children to the ground, and rip open the pregnant women (2 Kings 8:12). Joram was killed partly due to Hazael's attacks on Israel, at which time he was wounded (2 Kings 8:29). Jehu killed the wounded king (2 Kings 9:15, 24). Jehu also killed Jezebel at that time, Ahab's wife (2 Kings 9:33, 36). He had 70 royal members of Ahab's household slaughtered (2 Kings 10:7). He next killed all the rest of those in Jezreel who remained of Ahab's house, plus all his chief men and his close friends, leaving no survivor to Ahab's house. All of Jehu's actions seem contemporaneous with his murder of Joram. So we can well say that the prophecy of 1 Kings 21:28-29 was fulfilled in the days of Ahab's son, even leaving aside the problems with Moab.

>> HH: Omri was the founder of the dynasty. We all should be familiar
with the fact that the term "son" can mean grandson or even more
distant kinship links. So a revolt at the time of Ahab's son would
fulfill the words of the Mesha stele:

The Mesha stele says: "Omri the king of Israel, and he tortured Moab many
days, for Kemosh has despised his country. And his son replaced him and
said also, "I shall torture Moab!" ... And Omri inherited the country
of Mehedba,
and resided in it through the rest of his days and through the midst
of his son's
days, 40 years." This doesn't sound like he is speaking of Omri's grandson.

HH: Yes, this is a difficult issue. Some of the words read:

And his son succeeded him, and he also said I will oppress Moab. In my day he spoke according to this word, but I saw my desire upon him and upon his house, and Israel utterly perished forever.

Now Omri had possessed all the land of Medeba and dwelt in it his days and half the days of his son, forty years, but Chemosh restored it in my day. And I built Baal-meon and I made in it the reservoir and I built Kiryathaim. And the men of Gad had dwelt in the land of Ataroth from of old and the king of Israel had built for himself Ataroth. And I fought against the city and took it, and I slew all the people of the city, a sight pleasing to Chemosh and to Moab.

HH: I have not studied this issue in depth, but I see no reason to assume that the biblical account is false. The people writing the account believed in a God of truth. There are many other possibilities for reconciling the two accounts. The Moabite stone seems to record a series of events that took place over a span of time. It is possible that the repossession of Medeba did not involve warfare, or was not regarded as the full scale rebellion mentioned by 2 Kings as occurring after the death of Ahab.

HH: The fact that the king saw his desire on Omri's son and his house could allow that a considerable amount of his effort was directed against the house. Just outliving Ahab would provide a certain sense of victory over him.

HH: Some scholars mention that the forty years Mesha mentions would outlast the time of Ahab by some eight years if it began with the start of Omri's reign, which it might not. For Omri might not start oppressing Moab until well into his reign. So as a round number it would not be accurate, and as a correct number would run well into Joram's reign. Omri is supposed to have reigned with Tibni from 885 B.C., his sole reign beginning in 880. Ahab's reign was about 874-853. So even if one began with the time of Omri's dual reign, there would still be 8 of the 40 years to complete in 853 B.C.

Yours,
Harold Holmyard






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