Biblical Hebrew Forum

["George Athas" <gathas AT hotkey.net.au>]

My apologies -- the words for pain came out garbled. The normal word is (eCeB 
['pain'] and the heightened form is (iCCaBoWN ['pain-arama'].


Best Regards,

GEORGE ATHAS
(Sydney, Australia)


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: George Athas 
  To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org ; kwrandolph 
  Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 10:23 AM
  Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Boring grammar again


  Hi Karl!

  Thanks for your comments about DBR meaning expression -- they are very 
helpful.

  I'm not denying that Piel usually conveys the notion of bringing a state 
into being. I was just trying to capture all that the Piel pattern does with 
one label. Perhaps 'heightened' action is not the best label. The basic 
pattern of doubled second radical and no added intrinsic consonant (by 
intrinsic consonant I mean things like the nun-prefix for the Niphal) 
generally does convey a heightening or formalising of the concept, whether 
it's in a verbal or nominal form.

  A nominal form which comes to mind in the word Nwbc( in God's curse of the 
woman with regards childbearing in Gen 3. The standard word for 'pain' is 
something like bc( in the segholate form. The reference to Nwbc(, though, is 
an intensive form (something like 'pain-arama').

  In verbal terms, you might compare the Qal and Piel of the root GR$. The 
Qal means something like 'drive out' or 'cast out', but the Piel has a 
heightened or more formalised meaning, something like 'banish', 'expel' or 
'evict'.

  In sum, while Piel is predominantly used for the causation of a state, it 
does not solely mean this. It generally indicates a heightened or formalised 
action. Perhaps there is a better word someone might come up with which is 
more suitable and helpful?

  Best Regards,

  GEORGE ATHAS
  (Sydney, Australia)


    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: kwrandolph 
    To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org 
    Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 8:34 AM
    Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Boring grammar again


    Dear George et al:

    First of all, please excuse me if I retread something that has just 
    been answered to in the last few days-I missed a few days of mail and 
    the link to the archives from http://www.ibiblio.org/bhebrew has not 
    worked either for the last few days (I just checked again).

    As for the meaning of DBR as a verb, it seems closest to to express, 
    or in the Piel to make expression. Just as in English expression is 
    almost always done verbally, so DBR is almost always done verbally, 
    though rarely also by actions. A few times the allusion is made that 
    the expression is done through the hand of Moses or a prophet, 
    indicating the written form of expression.

    It could be that the Piel has more than one meaning, one of which is 
    making a verb out of a noun root, as expressed in verbs like DBR But 
    then I think of verbs like )BD which is well attested in both Qal and 
    Piel, where the Piel has the meaning of make into the state of ... 
    while the Qal to become... and the Hiphil to cause to become ... But 
    I see no evidence that Piel ever had the meaning of heightened 
    action. Yes, I have read that claim in more than one grammar, but 
    never observed it while reading Tanakh.

    Karl W. Randolph.


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "George Athas" <gathas AT hotkey.net.au>
    >
    >  The Piel certainly has a causative idea. I tell my students to
    >  think of the Piel as indicating a heightened action of some kind,
    >  whether that be intensive (eg, 'smash' rather than 'break') or
    >  causative (eg, 'grow' rather than just 'be big'). Of course, some
    >  actions have a naturally heightened concept, and therefore do not
    >  have any regular equivalent in the Qal stem (eg, DiBBeR - to speak,
    >  a heightened form of saying).
    >
    >  It's also helpful, as Peter Kirk has already alluded, to see the
    >  Piel and Hiphil as Hebrew parallels (not equivalents) to the
    >  addition of certain English suffixes. For example, compare the
    >  suffixes -ise (naturalise, realise -- for the Americans amongst us,
    >  that's -ize) and -ify (magnify, rectify).
    >
    >  Best Regards,
    >
    >  GEORGE ATHAS
    >  (Sydney, Australia)
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>From sh AT teol.ku.dk  Wed May 11 02:55:08 2005
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Dear friends

Apologies if somewhat off-topic. I desperately need the advice of those in 
the know.

A blind student is planning to begin study in our theology department, i.e. 
she will be starting Classical Greek and Biblical Hebrew. I've just been 
informed that somebody will show up and ask my advice about Bible software in 
regard to this. 

We have GramCord (and Bible Windows) on all student computers (the department 
is PC, and stubbornly so), and the powers that be have informed me that this 
is not likely to change in the foreseeable future. But I guess that if a few 
hundred dollars worth of single user license software of some other brand is 
gonna save this student's education, then that money can be found somewhere.

So my questions are:
a) Can a blind student use GramCord (or Bible Windows) with any benefit?
b) Will some other type of software meet the needs better?

We're NOT talking sophisticated research features here, it's a matter of 
paving the student's way through undergrad NT and HB courses, and then we'll 
see what happens next.

any help gratefully appreciated
Søren Holst, Univ. of Copenhagen