Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Karl Randolph" <kwrandolph AT email.com>]

Jack:

This discussion is going around in circles.

First, the meaning of PQD does not mean “punish”. That is could be translated 
as such is only a derived interpretation of its use in a partucular context.

Secondly, I and others have tried to point out to you that your reading of 
the text is very culturally biased.

To give an example of a different cultural reading, let’s look at a view 
widely spread in Islam. According to some, once an area has been conquered by 
Islam, it 
is to remain Islamic forever. By that reading, Islamic territories should 
include all of Spain, southern areas of France, and all of the Balkans to the 
gates of 
Vienna. That those territories are not under Islamic control is because, 
particularly in the case of Spain, of the role of Crusades to drive them out. 
Now some in 
Islam talk about avenging the actions of the Crusades. What they mean is not 
just the Crusades, but the continued possession of those lands by peoples 
opposed to the return of Islamic overlords. If the Spaniards, southern 
French, and the Balkans had after the Crusades decided to become dhimmis and 
invite 
Muslim overlordship, the demand to avenge the actions of the Crusades would 
not be there, because by their actions, the dhimmis would have already atoned 
for the Crusades.

(As an aside, when my son watched the movie on Lawrence of Arabia, he didn’t 
understand a reference to the “waters of Andulasia” until he learned about 
the 
above Islamic belief.)

What may seem to be your understanding of the text by your cultural bias as 
an open and shut case, may have a completely different understanding by those 
who wrote the text. In fact, my understanding of the text is based on a 
different cultural reading than yours, namely that the reference to Ameleq’s 
opposition 
to Moses some 300+ years earlier refers not only to the opening act (contra 
Moses during the Exodus) but includes all the following acts as well. The 
reference only to the opening act is a short way of referring to the whole.

I don’t intend to say anything more on this subject.

Karl W. Randolph.

----- Original Message -----
From: tladatsi AT charter.net> 
> The thrust of the story of 1 Sam 15 is that Ameleq fought
> with Isreal when Moses lead Isreal out of Egypt.  This
> created sin that was unatoned.  Two hundred years later,
> God decided it was time to settle the score.  God commands
> Saul (through Samuel) to attack and kill every single
> member of the Ameleq tribe in their city.  God is dis-
> satisfied with the status quo and takes the initiative to
> bring things into balance.  1 Sam 15:2 reads
> 
> e&-r$) le) r&yl qelm( h&( -r$) te) yTdqP tw)bc hwhy rm)hK
>   .eyrcMm wtl(B jrDB  wl
> 
> How do we translate *paqadetiy*?  I will punish, I will
> visit iniquity upon, I will settle accounts, I will pay
> attention to, I will charge guilt, I have remembered, I
> have marked, I have considered - are all options that have
> been offered.  Does changing the translation of the this
> one verb change the general thrust of the story any?
> 
> In my opinion it does not.  In the story God wants justice
> for the sin of Ameleq against Isreal. The sin creates a
> debt to God that has not been paid. Whether it is 2 years
> old or 200 years old does not matter.  The way to *settle
> the books* (NLT's translation) is to kill all of Ameleq,
> from old men to infants as well as destory their goods.
> 
> No matter how *paqadetiy* is translated, the point of the
> story is the same.  If you sin against God, you will create
> a debt to God that someone must pay. That may be you, or it
> may be your decendants or it may be your compatriots. It
> may be now  or it may be many generations later. This is
> the same perspective in 2 Sam 21 (where the verb pkd was
> not used).
> 
> Having said all of the above, punish seems to be the most
> direct translation in the context of this story.
> 
> Jack Tladatsi
-- 
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