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b-hebrew - Re: [b-hebrew] 'iysh and zakar

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  • From: Peter Kirk <peterkirk AT qaya.org>
  • To: George F Somsel <gfsomsel AT juno.com>
  • Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] 'iysh and zakar
  • Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2005 11:02:57 +0000

On 01/03/2005 03:13, George F Somsel wrote:

...

In one sense Peter is correct. I am not British and he is. I did not
pretend to say what is or is not good British English, but I will correct
that by saying that from listening to Brits speak I discern that Peter
incorrectly characterizes British English. I find from listening to
ex-pat Brits and to the BBC that the British are not so unaware and
unaccustomed to using the generic as he would pretend.


Thank you, George. I accept that the generic sense of "man" is not completely dead in British English, especially when referring (in the singular) to humanity as a whole rather than to individuals. On the other hand, I would venture to say from the Americans I know from personal contact and by e-mail that many of them also avoid generic "man", except for that particular usage.

I know that you are aware of the controversy over the new TNIV Bible, an American production (although with the worldwide market also in view) which avoids such generic language and is targeted at the 18-34 age group. In fact even the more conservative recent translations like ESV have tended to avoid generic "man", although this is common in the rather older NIV. Presumably some Americans really think that such language is preferred by many even in America. Of course ESV (but not TNIV) sticks to "man" in Psalm 1:1 (representing 'iysh), but even conservative Americans like Wayne Grudem and Vern Poythress do not understand this as gender generic, for they defend a "male representative" understanding of such verses.

I would also turn the tables on him by reminding him that, unless he is
sailing under a false flag, he has no qualifications to speak for "at
least 50% of the population" by which he presumably intends the female
portion of the population. ...


I am indeed not female! But I try to be the type of man who is sensitive to what women think. And some of them have strong views on this.

... If any women happen to be offended by the
usage of generic terms, I would be interested to hear. Otherwise, I must
conclude that Peter is a member of the PCLP [Politically Correct Language
Police].


George, it takes a language policeman (sorry, police officer) to recognise one! ;-)


--
Peter Kirk
peter AT qaya.org (personal)
peterkirk AT qaya.org (work)
http://www.qaya.org/



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