Biblical Hebrew Forum

[George F Somsel <gfsomsel AT juno.com>]

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 11:25:21 -0500 Jim West <jwest AT highland.net> writes:
> I recommend this:
> The Oxford Illustrated History of the Bible (Oxford Illustrated 
> Histories)
> by 
>
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0198601182/qid=1104942198/
sr=8-3/ref=pd_ka_2//exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-autho
r=J.%20W.%20Rogerson/104-6752654-9087138>J. 
> 
> W. Rogerson
> 
> Which will debunk the manifold errors presently floating around in 
> terms of 
> the history of the Biblical text.
> 
> Best
> 
> Jim
> 
> 
> ++++++++++++++++++++
> Jim West, ThD
> 
> http://web.infoave.net/~jwest Biblical Studies Resources
> http://biblical-studies.blogspot.com Biblical Theology Weblog
> 
> _______________________________________________

Jim, 

May I recommend to you, and to anyone else wishing to include a long URL,
the services offered at 

www.tinyurl.com. 

george
gfsomsel
___________
>From kgraham0938 AT comcast.net  Wed Jan  5 11:49:02 2005
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From: kgraham0938 AT comcast.net
To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Syntax of Jeremiah 15:12
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2005 16:49:01 +0000
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@Harold and Chris,

I don't know where my first email I sent today went, so I will just re-type 
most of what I said earlier.  

a. I am not defending the NET translation, but I do think it has merit.

b. The reason (from what I gather) they make iron and bronze a compound 
subject, is because they view Jer 6:28 as describing unrepented sinners as 
iron and bronze.

c. They also see the expression "from the north" to be pointing to a foe of 
some sort.   Jer 1:14; 4:6; 6:1; 13:20 etc. Compare this with Isa 10:5-6 i.e 
judgement upon a nation.

d. Taking all of that and putting it together is where they get the compound 
subject.  But the translator note that they cannot find a similar syntax to 
this passage, so I think there is a little guessing going on here.

That is why there translation says " Can you people who are like iron and 
bronze break that iron fist from the north?"
--
Kelton Graham
KGRAHAM0938 AT comcast.net


> Dear kgraham,
> 
> >Hey the NET makes some interesting observation, when it notes that 
> >maybe bronze and iron are allegorical images pointing to unrepented 
> >sinners.
> >
> >They use Jer 6:28 where sinners are compared to bronze and iron.
> >
> >"They are bronze and iron, they act corruptly."
> >
> >So maybe in 15:12 bronze and iron are still representing unrepented 
> >sinners.
> >
> >Can (those who are like) iron and bronze break iron from the north?
> >
> >Or less wordy, can iron and bronze break iron from the north ?
> 
> HH: That can make a lot of sense on a purely logical level, but the 
> word order seems against it. The words "iron from the north" are in 
> between the words "iron" and "bronze" in Hebrew. That makes it look 
> more like an apposition: "iron, iron from the north."
> 
>                               Yours,
>                               Harold Holmyard
> 
> >
> >
> >>  On 1/4/05 10:57 AM, "Harold R. Holmyard III" <hholmyard AT ont.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>  > There are not two instances of $RYTYK in Jer 15:11 ...
> >>
> >>  My error, as I have already noted.
> >>
> >>  The e-text of BHS I use puts both the Kethiv-Qere in the text one in
> >>  brackets. This is very confusing to one who spends the majority of his 
> >> time
> >>  using a critical edition of the GNT where brackets are used for dubious
> >>  readings not alternative readings. The BHS apparatus cleared up the 
> >> issue
> >>  once I figured it out.
> >>
> >>  >The LXX treatment
> >>  > of 15:12 suggests a poor text and misinterpretation; I have no
> >>  > confidence in following it.
> >>
> >>  Who does? When you are "up against the wall" you look at ALL the 
> >> evidence.
> >>
> >>
> >>  greetings,
> >>  Clay Bartholomew
> >> 
> >>
> >>
> >>  _______________________________________________
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