b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Biblical Hebrew Forum
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- From: Peter Kirk <peterkirk AT qaya.org>
- To: Stoney Breyer <stoneyb AT touchwood.net>
- Cc: 'b-hebrew' <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
- Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] YHWH's attitude towards zonah
- Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 15:34:02 +0100
On 16/07/2004 14:54, Stoney Breyer wrote:
-----Original Message-----Fair enough as a question. I will not attempt to provide any evidence from outside the Hebrew Bible and the LXX. But I will look at the evidence from within it:
Peter Kirk:
Surely the point is: (v.17, English) No temple prostitution among
Israelites; (v.18) don't even bring the earnings of prostitutes into the
temple because that makes them effectively temple prostitutes; because YHWH detests temple prostitution.
But, Peter, doesn't that paraphrase, like Patrina's explanation, beg the
question rather than answer it? ... the question being What *is* a
qedeshah?
More narrowly, is the common understanding of qedeshah as "temple
prostitute" based on any *reliable* evidence that "temple prostitution"
was actually practiced in Canaan or anywhere else in the ANE? May it not
equally be the same sort of myth as the Witch Cult of Northern Europe?
There were people known as qadesh and qadesha, sometimes found within Israel (1Ki 14:24, 15:12, 22:46, 2Ki 23:7) but (at least from the perspective of the Deuteronomist) incompatible with true Yahwism (Deut 23:17 and the contexts of the Kings references). They were apparently associated with idolatry (1Ki 15:12) and during a period of apostasy their houses were in the house of YHWH (2Ki 23:7).
There is a clear association between qadesha and zona, in Hosea 4:14 where the two words are used in poetic parallelism and in Genesis 38 where the same woman is referred to as zona and qadesha, as well as in Deut 23:17,18 where the context strongly suggests a link, with the interpretation I gave above.
The LXX renderings of the Hebrew are clear in Deut 23:17,18: PORNH = (female) prostitute and PORNEUWN = (masculine) sexually immoral; also Genesis 38:21,22: PORNH three times. This is clear evidence of an ancient Jewish understanding of qadesh(a) as referring to prostitution. Elsewhere the renderings are more obscure but some suggest a religious dimension: SUNDESMOS (1Ki 14:24), TELETH ("mysteries"?) (15:12), ENDIHLLAGMENOS (22:46 some MSS), KADHSIM (2Ki 23:7), TETELESMENOS ("initiates"?) (Hos 4:14), AGGELOS (!) (Job 36:14).
All of this strongly suggests that qadesh(a) is in fact a reference to prostitution, and a kind of prostitution which had religious links and significance. Beyond that, and without extra-biblical evidence, we cannot be certain, but "temple prostitute" certainly fits well. There is very little evidence for your theory of a religious role not involving prostitution.
--
Peter Kirk
peter AT qaya.org (personal)
peterkirk AT qaya.org (work)
http://www.qaya.org/
-
[b-hebrew] RE: Zonah v Qadeshah & What Judah Thought
, (continued)
-
[b-hebrew] RE: Zonah v Qadeshah & What Judah Thought,
Stoney Breyer, 07/14/2004
-
[b-hebrew] Re: [b-hebrew YHWH's attitude towards zonah,
Patrina, 07/15/2004
-
[b-hebrew] YHWH's attitude towards kadesh/kadeshah,
Patrina, 07/15/2004
- Re: [b-hebrew] YHWH's attitude towards kadesh/kadeshah, Harold R. Holmyard III, 07/15/2004
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Re: [b-hebrew YHWH's attitude towards zonah,
Peter Kirk, 07/16/2004
-
[b-hebrew] Re: YHWH's attitude towards zonah,
Patrina, 07/16/2004
- [b-hebrew] Re: YHWH's attitude towards zonah, Peter Kirk, 07/16/2004
-
[b-hebrew] Re: YHWH's attitude towards zonah,
Patrina, 07/16/2004
-
[b-hebrew] RE: [b-hebrew YHWH's attitude towards zonah,
Stoney Breyer, 07/16/2004
-
Re: [b-hebrew] RE: [b-hebrew YHWH's attitude towards zonah,
Peter Kirk, 07/16/2004
-
RE: [b-hebrew] RE: [b-hebrew YHWH's attitude towards zonah,
Stoney Breyer, 07/16/2004
-
Re: [b-hebrew] YHWH's attitude towards zonah,
Peter Kirk, 07/16/2004
- RE: [b-hebrew] YHWH's attitude towards zonah, Stoney Breyer, 07/16/2004
- RE: [b-hebrew] YHWH's attitude towards zonah, Harold R. Holmyard III, 07/16/2004
- Re: [b-hebrew] YHWH's attitude towards zonah, Peter Kirk, 07/16/2004
-
Re: [b-hebrew] YHWH's attitude towards zonah,
Peter Kirk, 07/16/2004
-
RE: [b-hebrew] RE: [b-hebrew YHWH's attitude towards zonah,
Stoney Breyer, 07/16/2004
-
Re: [b-hebrew] RE: [b-hebrew YHWH's attitude towards zonah,
Peter Kirk, 07/16/2004
-
[b-hebrew] YHWH's attitude towards kadesh/kadeshah,
Patrina, 07/15/2004
-
[b-hebrew] Re: [b-hebrew YHWH's attitude towards zonah,
Patrina, 07/15/2004
-
[b-hebrew] RE: Zonah v Qadeshah & What Judah Thought,
Stoney Breyer, 07/14/2004
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Zonah v Qadeshah & What Judah Thought,
George F. Somsel, 07/14/2004
- RE: [b-hebrew] Zonah v Qadeshah & What Judah Thought, Stoney Breyer, 07/15/2004
- Re: [b-hebrew] Zonah v Qadeshah & What Judah Thought, George F. Somsel, 07/15/2004
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