Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

b-hebrew - Re: [b-hebrew] Zonah v Qadeshah & What Judah Thought

b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Biblical Hebrew Forum

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: "George F. Somsel" <gfsomsel AT juno.com>
  • To: david.kimbrough AT charter.net
  • Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Zonah v Qadeshah & What Judah Thought
  • Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 21:28:24 -0400

On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 21:26:51 +0000 <david.kimbrough AT charter.net> writes:
> Stoney,
>
> You are quite correct. The point is that Judah thought the woman by
> the road side was a zonah. Why the vail made him think that is not
> the point. She certainly acted the part during negotiations. (I
> wonder how the ancient reader would have assessed the price. Was a
> kid a lot or little for that sort of service?)
>
> It is also a key point that Judah thought Tamar was a zonah as well.
> She was pregnant and not by one of his sons as Judah had promised
> her to be. Therefor she must be a zonah and be punished with a
> terrible death.
>
> Judah was of course shigrined to find out that these two "whores"
> were in fact the same woman, his twice over daughter-in-law and now
> the mother of two his his three surviving children!
>
> HOWEVER, *my* point is that the use of a kadeshah in Genesis 38 does
> seems (I am not saying this is proven) to have some more honor, or
> was at least less embrassing, than using a zonah. That would seem
> to explain why the Adullamite was out looking for a kadeshah to
> redeem Judah signet, braclet, and staff, rather than a zonah.
>
>
> >
> > From: "Stoney Breyer" <stoneyb AT touchwood.net>
> > Date: 2004/07/14 Wed PM 08:36:13 GMT
> > To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> > Subject: RE: [b-hebrew] Zonah v Qadeshah in Gen 38
> >
> > David Kimbrough: it is a NOT trade mark of a common prostitute
> (both in
> > ancient and modern times in the Levant) to wear a veil. "Proper"
> women
> > cover their faces, a zonah certainly would not.
> >
> > Peter Kirk: As for * ky kSth Pnyh *, surely that explains not why
> Judah
> > thought Tamar was a prostitute but why he did not recognise his
> own
> > daughter.
> >
> > Vincent Medina: It is not clear what made Judah think she was a
> zonah.
> > Perhaps the very fact that she was sitting beside the road gave
> this
> > impression (as previously noted, the veil would not have been the
> clue).
> > The narrator does not tell us, so it is beside the point.
> >
> > SB: He sure sounds like he tells us. He doesn't say "he didn't
> know her
> > because she had covered her face," he says "he took her for a
> zonah
> > because she had covered her face." And at the very least veiling
> must
> > be *consistent* with prostitution, or Judah could *not* have taken
> Tamar
> > for a zonah.
> >
> > As long as we're engaging in conjecture: Perhaps prostitutes *had*
> to
> > wear veils because their calling was so shameful. Or perhaps
> prostitutes
> > covered themselves because there was something erotic about it.
> Perhaps
> > removing a woman's veil had the same sort of erotic significance
> that
> > removing a woman's girdle had for the Greeks. Rebekah is a
> "proper
> > woman" who apparently did *not* wear a veil in the company of her
> > escort, but put one on to meet her new husband. And perhaps
> qdeshot,
> > too, wore veils (like Moses, to protect bystanders from their
> divine
> > effulgence? Or vice versa?), and that's why they're associated
> with
> > prostitutes. Or, contrariwise, perhaps prostitutes assumed veils
> in
> > order to associate themselves with qdeshot, either for an extra
> erotic
> > fillip or as an act of countercultural self-assertion.
> >
> > Stoney Breyer
> > Writer, Touchwood
> > _______________________________________________

I hardly think the veil served to foster the impression that Tamar was a
prostitute (of whatever sort) though it would have served to disguise
her. Rather, I think it was the fact that she was sitting beside the
road that gave this impression. Consider Jer. 3.2

%:)"Y_("YNaYiK (aL_$:PfYiYM W.R:)iY )"YPoH Lo) $uG.iL:T.: ***
(aL_D.:RfKiYM Yf$iB:T.: LfHeM ***

george
gfsomsel




Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page