Biblical Hebrew Forum

[<david.kimbrough AT charter.net>]

Not quite:

Genesis 38:21 (NASB) He [Judah] asked the men of her place, saying, "Where is 
the temple prostitute [kadeshah] who was by the road at Enaim?" But they 
said, "There has been no temple prostitute here."


> 
> From: "Medina, Vincent" <VMedina AT cbcag.edu>
> Date: 2004/07/14 Wed PM 04:28:20 GMT
> To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Subject: RE: [b-hebrew] Kadeshah
> 
> To be precise, from Judah's perspective she was a zonah (v. 15), it was
> his Canaanite friend who referred to her as a Qadeshah (v. 21).
> 
> Vince
> 
> Associate Professor
> Central Bible College
> 3000 N. Grant Avenue
> Springfield, Missouri  65803
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of
> david.kimbrough AT charter.net
> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 10:50 AM
> To: Peter Kirk; Bearpecs AT aol.com
> Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: [b-hebrew] Kadeshah
> 
> While later traditions certainly condemns the ritual prostitutes, in
> Genesis 38 Judah thinks nothing too much amiss of making use of what he
> thinks is a road side *kadeshah*, who is, of course, is actually is
> daughter in law Tamar.  Whenever Genesis 38 was writen, the author (and
> audiance) obviously did not think using the services of *kadeshah* too
> taboo or the author would not have had one of the patriarchs doing so.
> 
> > 
> > From: Peter Kirk <peterkirk AT qaya.org>
> > Date: 2004/07/14 Wed AM 08:29:22 GMT
> > To: Bearpecs AT aol.com
> > CC: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] "Sodomite" in 2 Kings 23.7 & Homosexuality
> > 
> > On 14/07/2004 05:04, Bearpecs AT aol.com wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > >...
> > > 
> > >I also think it is likely that a qadesha associated with a sanctuary
> may  not 
> > >have been a "temple prostitute" in the sense of a woman who commited
> sexual  
> > >acts for cultic, ritual reasons.  I am not aware of any evidence that
> ancient 
> > >Israel practiced ritual sex for cultic purposes -- or even
> acknowledged  for 
> > >example any sympathetic magic of human sex encouraging agricultural  
> > >fertility.  (And if you say that all the evidence has been expurgated
> from  the Bible, 
> > >then why would the mention of qedeshot not also be expurgated?)
> Rather, I 
> > >would suggest that a qedesha may have been a woman (presumably a
> slave) 
> > >dedicated to the sanctuary, just as other items were dedicated to the
> sanctuary.  
> > >Her income would then have belonged to the sanctuary.   Thus, she may
> have been 
> > >a prostitute, and a "holy" prostitute in the sense that  her cost
> went to the 
> > >upkeep of the holy sanctuary, but not a "temple prostitute"  in the
> classic 
> > >meaning of the term.  (A qadesh -- whether performing  homosexual or 
> > >heterosexual acts -- would similarly have been a sanctuary
> prostitute but did not engage 
> > >in sex for cultic purposes.)  This  would be just as deplorable in
> the eyes 
> > >of the Bible as temple prostitution, but  I suggest is more
> consistent with 
> > >what we know of the theological  environment.
> > > 
> > >  
> > >
> > The answer to your theory is in what Yigal wrote:
> > 
> > >In all of
> > >these, it refers to something that the Bible regards negatively, some
> > >forbidden practice. Since the root QD$ is usually related to things
> > >"sacred", one would assume that here, too, the reference is to some
> > >forbidden cultic activity.
> > >
> > 
> > Furthermore, in many of the references QADESH is linked to the 
> > idolatrous practices of the neighbouring nations. It is clear that, to
> 
> > the faithful Israelites who wrote the Bible books, this was something 
> > alien, idolatrous and detestable which had been imported into
> Israelite 
> > religion by syncretists. Ritual sex for cultic purposes was indeed
> never 
> > a part of normative Yahwism. But the Bible repeatedly tells us that 
> > non-normative pagan practices were imported into Yahwism, and
> condemned 
> > by the biblical authors. Even without the explicit references, we

> would 
> > expect cultic prostitution to be one of these practices. 2 Kings 23:7
> is 
> > one of the passages in which these practices are condemned, in that
> they 
> > were stamped out by Josiah who is commended as the ideal faithful king
> 
> > (v.25).
> > 
> > So, although we cannot be sure exactly what a QADESH did, we cannot 
> > argue that it was not temple prostitution because this was not an 
> > Israelite practice. Israelite practice in the pre-exilic period did
> not 
> > always match the ideals of the Deuteronomist, and the texts bear
> witness 
> > to that in their condemnations. Indeed, at times, such as the reign of
> 
> > Manasseh, Israelite practice was much like that of the surrounding 
> > nations, including child sacrifice (2 Kings 21:6), and the use of the 
> > word QADESH in association with such periods suggests that temple 
> > prostitution was included.
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Peter Kirk
> > peter AT qaya.org (personal)
> > peterkirk AT qaya.org (work)
> > http://www.qaya.org/
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
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> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
> > 
> 
> David Kimbrough
> San Gabriel
> 
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David Kimbrough
San Gabriel